South Africa faces a vaccine problem ahead of a possible fourth Covid-19 wave

[porchrat]

Would you say the Covid vaccine is more like the Flu vaccine/jab?

It's about as closely related as it is to the MMR. The flu vaccine is an inactivated vaccine.

Again, all 3 use the same vaccine principle.

I'm not sure you actually understand what a vaccine is. The definition of it seems to confuse you.

If your argument is that the COVID vaccine isn't actually a vaccine then I can only conclude that you don't know what a vaccine actually is... because it is definitely a vaccine... that point isn't something you can debate.

The efficacy of a vaccine is not what makes it a vaccine. Strep pneumoniae vaccines for example are also not 100% effective, but they're still vaccines because of the principle they employ to protect you.

 

[Spizz]

The opening of the arena with dead bodies in the street being collected by people in Hazmat suites did not help with this apocalypse of 99.97% survival rate.

As I said, hindsight. Amazing how you think preventing health services around the world from overflowing and being unable to cope is is a reason to sneer instead of calling it a success. Anything to suit your agenda I guess.

 

[Spizz]

Hindsight only for those who didn't spot the con almost right off the bat

There was a con?

 

[ShaunSA]

There was a con?

Ah yes there is that non-existent hindsight of yours speaking again

 

[LCBXX]

It's about as closely related as it is to the MMR. The flu vaccine is an inactivated vaccine.

Again, all 3 use the same vaccine principle.

I'm not sure you actually understand what a vaccine is. The definition of it seems to confuse you.

If your argument is that the COVID vaccine isn't actually a vaccine then I can only conclude that you don't know what a vaccine actually is... because it is definitely a vaccine... that point isn't something you can debate.

The efficacy of a vaccine is not what makes it a vaccine. Strep pneumoniae vaccines for example are also not 100% effective, but they're still vaccines because of the principle they employ to protect you.

Up until 2021, my understanding was that a vaccine provides a patient with long term, if not life-long, immunity, not protection.

 

[porchrat]

Up until 2021, my understanding was that a vaccine provides a patient with long term, if not life-long, immunity, not protection.

OK in that case you misunderstand what is meant by "immunity".

Immunity means you can combat an infection via the production of antibodies (and other immune cells depending on the nature of the pathogen).

So... what does a vaccine give you?... the memory of the pathogen... the ability to produce those antibodies... in other words... immunity.

I hope this has helped you better understand how vaccines work. They're not magic. They're training your body to fight the infection when you get it.

 

[access]

a fancy pants mathematician seems to think theres light at the end of the tunnel..

Numbers are adding up: ‘SA herd immunity is starting to work’​

Numbers are adding up: ‘SA herd immunity is starting to work’

All nine provinces are through the third Covid-19 wave and SA is in a ‘good place’, says CSIR’s Dr Ridhwaan Suliman

www.timeslive.co.za

Suliman holds a PhD in applied maths from Cambridge University, so while he may not be a medical doctor, numbers, how they work and what they mean are his thing.

Suliman believes that the vaccine rate remains too low to have had any sort of significant impact on the numbers.

but you can bet your ass there will be reference to the end of the 3rd wave and vaccinations rolled out...

like that idiot groote schuur doctor wailing about nobody in his overcrowded ward being vaccinated, meanwhile there were hardly any vaccinations in the country at the time ..lol the media and people ate it up and frowned upon the unvaccinated. bad "anti-vaxx" people. bad.

 

[LCBXX]

Ah yes there is that non-existent hindsight of yours speaking again

People are just butt-hurt that there's a virus that affects those with money and affluence more than it does the impoverished. Such injustice.

 

[LCBXX]

OK in that case you misunderstand what is meant by "immunity".

Immunity means you can combat an infection via the production of antibodies (and other immune cells depending on the nature of the pathogen).

So... what does a vaccine give you?... the memory of the pathogen... the ability to produce those antibodies... in other words... immunity.

I hope this has helped you better understand how vaccines work. They're not magic. They're training your body to fight the infection when you get it.

It's helped me realise that you're just parroting a packaged explanation in support the Covid vaccination narrative.

 

[ShaunSA]

People are just butt-hurt that there's a virus that affects those with money and affluence more than it does the impoverished. Such injustice.

Yeah they're mad the impoverished didn't drop like flies

 

[LCBXX]

Yeah they're mad the impoverished didn't drop like flies

Sickening to think that so many wished for that, just so that they can be right.

 

[Spizz]

Ah yes there is that non-existent hindsight of yours speaking again

I’m not sure what you are on about? You said you spotted the con. I’m wondering what con?

 

[porchrat]

It's helped me realise that you're just parroting a packaged explanation in support the Covid vaccination narrative.

LOL. This is basic immunology knowledge my friend. I studied a fair few years of physiology and all of those years carried immunology courses. I'm far from an expert and it's been a while since I went through this work so I could have recalled something incorrectly. It's not my fault that it doesn't line up with your bias. You're welcome to show me where I've made a mistake in my explanation.

Good luck. Arguing that a vaccine isn't a vaccine is going to be difficult.

 

[ShaunSA]

I’m not sure what you are on about? You said you spotted the con. I’m wondering what con?

Give it a few years. Then when we speak again you can say it's my hindsight

 

[noxibox]

Why do people keep saying this? Everything I've read so far says it reduces transmission significantly. Something in the region of 50-60% for the Pfizer vaccine, lower for others (I think Moderna was something like 30-40% reduction).

It is perfectly logical. Less severe symptoms, shorter time carrying the infection... obviously we're going to be less likely to infect other people under those conditions.

Then perhaps they should stop harping on about asymptomatic spread. Although in truth disease severity and infectiousness don't appear to be correlated. Which is also logical because a high viral load in the upper respiratory tract, but not in the lower respiratory tract can mean a mild case while still being able to spread the virus.

There is one group of vaccines that do prevent infection - the nasal and upper respiratory tract vaccines - because they lead to the direct neutralisation of invading bugs and produce a direct Iga response.

They're working at those because the ideal is to have an immune response right where a virus enters the body. That kills the virus as it is attempting to get into the body before it can start replicating.

Is it a vaccine in the same way that MMR is a vaccine?

Yes. People have misconceptions about vaccines, believing that immunity means 100% protection. But many of the media and people who are supposed to be experts make this mistake regularly too by focussing solely on antibodies. Hence all the scaremongering about waning antibodies and ignoring the fact that memory cells last far longer.

Numbers are adding up: ‘SA herd immunity is starting to work’

All nine provinces are through the third Covid-19 wave and SA is in a ‘good place’, says CSIR’s Dr Ridhwaan Suliman

www.timeslive.co.za

According to some he isn't allowed to comment because he isn't a medical expert with an appropriate degree.

 

[LCBXX]

LOL. This is basic immunology knowledge my friend. I studied a fair few years of physiology and all of those years carried immunology courses. I'm far from an expert and it's been a while since I went through this work so I could have recalled something incorrectly. It's not my fault that it doesn't line up with your bias. You're welcome to show me where I've made a mistake in my explanation.

Good luck.

You're an anonymous individual with a picture of a rat wearing an eye patch as your icon.
I don't know you and you don't know me.
Don't take it personally.

 

[Spizz]

Give it a few years. Then when we speak again you can say it's my hindsight

Ah, so you’re talking schit? Gotcha.

 

[porchrat]

Then perhaps they should stop harping on about asymptomatic spread.

I don't see why. I don't think anybody is arguing that no symptoms means no spread.

Although in truth disease severity and infectiousness don't appear to be correlated. Which is also logical because a high viral load in the upper respiratory tract, but not in the lower respiratory tract can mean a mild case while still being able to spread the virus.

You have a point here. Perhaps the observed vaccine efficacy against the virus spread is down to duration of infection or some other mechanism not yet understood.

 

[porchrat]

You're an anonymous individual with a picture of a rat wearing an eye patch as your icon.
I don't know you and you don't know me.
Don't take it personally.

I don't see what that has to do with the price of tea in China.

I'm simply pointing out that what I'm telling you is not exactly cutting edge knowledge. We've known it for well over a century. Arguably 2 centuries. You can look it up online. It's also perfectly logical.

Again, you're welcome to point out where I'm wrong. If this isn't for your benefit and you ignore it and carry on in ignorance hopefully someone else reads it and learns something.

 

[access]

OK in that case you misunderstand what is meant by "immunity".

Immunity means you can combat an infection via the production of antibodies (and other immune cells depending on the nature of the pathogen).

So... what does a vaccine give you?... the memory of the pathogen... the ability to produce those antibodies... in other words... immunity.

I hope this has helped you better understand how vaccines work. They're not magic. They're training your body to fight the infection when you get it.

natural infection does this very thing with your immune system. it is what a vaccine is trying to mimic.

we have been told that over 80% of south africans have been infected with sars-cov-2.

so then over 80% of south africans have some form immunity? why all the noise for all to vaccinate

According to some he isn't allowed to comment because he isn't a medical expert with an appropriate degree.

oh yeah.. you need to be a mechanic to change a tyre. lol.