South Africa faces a vaccine problem ahead of a possible fourth Covid-19 wave

[porchrat]

natural infection does this very thing with your immune system. it is what a vaccine is trying to mimic.

Exactly. It's trying to artificially give you immunological memory.

we have been told that over 80% of south africans have been infected with sars-cov-2.

so then over 80% of south africans have some form immunity? why all the noise for all to vaccinate

Yea it's a good point. If we've all already been infected the natural antibodies and memory we have are likely as good, if not better, than those you'd get from the vaccine.

I assume it's aimed at those that haven't got it yet (after all, if the number is as high as 80% most of us probably don't know we've had it) or who have comorbidities and are more likely to die should they encounter the real thing. It's not like taking the vaccine if already having been infected is going to make you less immune. Your immunological memory is already in place and will just squash that vaccine antigen.

 

[dualmeister]

Johannesburg – A fourth wave of Covid-19 might hit Gauteng as early as next month due to possible super-spreader events taking place, the Gauteng Provincial Command Council has warned

Fourth wave could hit Gauteng as early as next month

Fears that super-spreader events may lead to another spike in the province.

www.iol.co.za

 

[zoozi]

Help me understand what is going on in Singapore:

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Singapore's pretty much blocked out covid till Delta. 36 total deaths throughout the entire pandemic till September 2021. Right now, 2-11 daily deaths for a densely populated city-state that's had barely any exposure at all and burnt through none of it's old age extremely vulnerable population like most countries yet (Colin Powell types of vaccinated vulnerable). Is there some kind of "gotcha" here, cause I can't see it?

 

[Geoff.D]

a fancy pants mathematician seems to think theres light at the end of the tunnel..

Numbers are adding up: ‘SA herd immunity is starting to work’

All nine provinces are through the third Covid-19 wave and SA is in a ‘good place’, says CSIR’s Dr Ridhwaan Suliman

www.timeslive.co.za

but you can bet your ass there will be reference to the end of the 3rd wave and vaccinations rolled out...

like that idiot groote schuur doctor wailing about nobody in his overcrowded ward being vaccinated, meanwhile there were hardly any vaccinations in the country at the time ..lol the media and people ate it up and frowned upon the unvaccinated. bad "anti-vaxx" people. bad.

Spot on analysis. Yes the maths tells the truth! The other lot have no damn clue about what to do with the numbers.

 

[Geoff.D]

Johannesburg – A fourth wave of Covid-19 might hit Gauteng as early as next month due to possible super-spreader events taking place, the Gauteng Provincial Command Council has warned

Fourth wave could hit Gauteng as early as next month

Fears that super-spreader events may lead to another spike in the province.

www.iol.co.za

As usual just confirms what we have seen time and again in GP.

 

[LCBXX]

I don't see what that has to do with the price of tea in China.

I'm simply pointing out that what I'm telling you is not exactly cutting edge knowledge. We've known it for well over a century. Arguably 2 centuries. You can look it up online. It's also perfectly logical.

Again, you're welcome to point out where I'm wrong. If this isn't for your benefit and you ignore it and carry on in ignorance hopefully someone else reads it and learns something.

Does it explain why the CDC, as an example, changed their definition of what vaccination means in September 2021? Why the need to change the definition of something that is know for 200 years?

 

[etienne_marais]

Does it explain why the CDC, as an example, changed their definition of what vaccination means in September 2021? Why the need to change the definition of something that is know for 200 years?

Heard that the definition of what constitutes a pandemic also changed drastically in the last couple of years.

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

As usual just confirms what we have seen time and again in GP.

What do you mean? No uptick in cases in Gauteng...

 

[LCBXX]

Heard that the definition of what constitutes a pandemic also changed drastically in the last couple of years.

Another recent definition change:

 

[porchrat]

Does it explain why the CDC, as an example, changed their definition of what vaccination means in September 2021? Why the need to change the definition of something that is know for 200 years?

I don't give a fetid parrot's cloaca what the CDC says. Those people are currently trying to explain this beautiful and complicated system through a series of over simplified press articles to people that only recently learnt to spell immunity, not those that are really interested in how the vaccinology and immunology behind these vaccines work.

Stop changing the subject and deal with what I've presented to you honestly instead of like some slippery eel that changes the subject and brings the CDC into it when he gets cornered. They're not some absolute authority on what we call things and how they work.

I've explained to you why the COVID 19 vaccines are vaccines. I've explained what a vaccine is. I've explained what immunity is and how it relates to vaccines.

You reject what I've said. I suspect, not because you have a scientific basis on which to reject it, but simply because you're biased and don't want to call them vaccines. Possibly because you think that somehow inherently involves admitting they're 100% effective (this too is part of your misunderstanding of vaccines). You're emotive, not logical. You're welcome to prove that assumption wrong with a coherent argument. Again, good luck though because the argument that vaccines are vaccines because of some arbitrary efficacy figure and not because of their mechanism of action with regards to our immunological memory is a tough argument to sell.

 

[ajan]

Wait people still arguing about the clown pandemic?

 

[Spizz]

Wait people still arguing about the clown pandemic?

Indeed. The pandemic has brought them out of the woodwork. This thread is full of them.

 

[Geoff.D]

And during the

Heard that the definition of what constitutes a pandemic also changed drastically in the last couple of years.

And during the pandemic, the WHO tampered with the definition to suit the desired narrative. Difficult to prove but there are people that can table the previous definitions and even show exactly when the definition changed.

 

[pinball wizard]

Spot on analysis. Yes the maths tells the truth! The other lot have no damn clue about what to do with the numbers.

As usual just confirms what we have seen time and again in GP.

So which one is you weirdo geriatric?

Is it heard immunity as you support with Suliman's "maths" or are we ****ed again? It can't be both, can it?

 

[LCBXX]

I don't give a fetid parrot's cloaca what the CDC says. Those people are currently trying to explain this beautiful and complicated system through a series of over simplified press articles to people that only recently learnt to spell immunity, not those that are really interested in how the vaccinology and immunology behind these vaccines work.

Stop changing the subject and deal with what I've presented to you honestly instead of like some slippery eel that changes the subject and brings the CDC into it when he gets cornered. They're not some absolute authority on what we call things and how they work.

I've explained to you why the COVID 19 vaccines are vaccines. I've explained what a vaccine is. I've explained what immunity is and how it relates to vaccines.

You reject what I've said. I suspect, not because you have a scientific basis on which to reject it, but simply because you're biased and don't want to call them vaccines. Possibly because you think that somehow inherently involves admitting they're 100% effective (this too is part of your misunderstanding of vaccines). You're emotive, not logical. You're welcome to prove that assumption wrong with a coherent argument. Again, good luck though because the argument that vaccines are vaccines because of some arbitrary efficacy figure and not because of their mechanism of action with regards to our immunological memory is a tough argument to sell.

Who are you to think you can dismiss the CDC?

 

[porchrat]

Who are you to think you can dismiss the CDC?

I'm not dismissing them. I'm saying you're taking extremely simplified articles aimed at explaining a complicated subject to the largely ignorant masses to stop them freaking out over COVID and treating it like it's the gospel that explains everything 100% accurately.

If you want to really understand why I'm saying the COVID vaccines are vaccines, and obviously so (and that there's no global conspiracy to shift the goalposts on vaccines and how they work), go read a textbook on immunology, then read one on vaccinology. Don't read some fluff CDC press release aimed at explaining these concepts to the general public all the way from school children to adults and overanalyse it. Heck you don't even need to read an immunology textbook, just grab a physiology textbook and read the bit on immunology in there, it will be enough to help you understand what immunological memory is and how it works when you get infected.

Heck go read an immunology textbook from a decade ago if you don't trust. This stuff hasn't changed.

Your insane response to the definition of vaccines on the CDC's website screams ignorance of this topic my dude. As does your rejection of the most basic of knowledge on this topic that I've conveyed to you in this thread.

 

[LCBXX]

I'm not dismissing them. I'm saying you're taking extremely simplified articles aimed at explaining a complicated subject to the largely ignorant masses to stop them freaking out over COVID and treating it like it's the gospel that explains everything 100% accurately.

If you want to really understand why I'm saying the COVID vaccines are vaccines, and obviously so (and that there's no global conspiracy to shift the goalposts on vaccines and how they work), go read a textbook on immunology, then read one on vaccinology. Don't read some fluff CDC press release aimed at explaining these concepts to the general public all the way from school children to adults. Heck you don't even need to read an immunology textbook, just grab a physiology textbook and read the bit on immunology in there, it will be enough to help you understand what immunological memory is and how it works.

Heck go read an immunology textbook from a decade ago if you don't trust. This stuff hasn't changed.

Your insane response to the definition of vaccines on the CDC's website screams ignorance of this topic my dude.

All I'm saying is that it is, IMO, inaccurate to consider the Flu and Covid vaccines in the same light as something like the MMR vaccine, that latter which provides long-term (life-long) immunity.

The recent changing of the definitions of vaccination to from immunity to protection is, IMO, an attempt to justify earlier Covid vaccine narratives, which punted the vaccine as giving immunity against Covid, which changed over the months to what is now: offering protection from possibly dying of a Covid infection.

You can argue that the Covid vaccine was never going to offer immunity, to which I ask: why lie about it then?

 

[porchrat]

All I'm saying is that it is, IMO, inaccurate to consider the Flu and Covid vaccines in the same light as something like the MMR vaccine, that latter which provides long-term (life-long) immunity.

Then you don't understand what the word "vaccine" means.

Things like the flu vaccine aren't effective forever because the virus itself mutates rapidly. Same for COVID. Delta diminished the efficacy of these vaccines. Same for Strep. pneumoniae vaccines. Serotype replacement wrecked their efficacy too. They're all still vaccines FFS. Their mechanism of action is still to invoke immunological memory.

The recent changing of the definitions of vaccination to from immunity to protection is, IMO, an attempt to justify earlier Covid vaccine narratives, which punted the vaccine as giving immunity against Covid, which changed over the months to what is now: offering protection from possibly dying of a Covid infection.

Then you don't understand what the word "immunity" means.

You can argue that the Covid vaccine was never going to offer immunity, to which I ask: why lie about it then?

It offers immunity. You just don't seem to understand what that means. Hence why I'm saying go read a textbook on the matter to better equip yourself for this discussion. Though maybe that's pointless as the textbook will tell you what I've told you and you reject that... for some reason you've yet to explain.

You don't even need to read a textbook. Just take a basic immunology course at one of these online unis like Khan. They will explain it to you. I warn you though, they're just going to tell you what you don't want to hear.

 

[Geoff.D]

So which one is you weirdo geriatric?

Is it heard immunity as you support with Suliman's "maths" or are we ****ed again? It can't be both, can it?

Did you read the article? Yes, I know it is IOL, but the source is a credible one?
Are you waiting for a summary? Before you take note of what he said? If so are you sure you applied your mind to ensure you comprehended what he said?

 

[zolly]

Why do people keep saying this?

Coz people like @dualmeister are fokken stupid.