South Africa faces a vaccine problem ahead of a possible fourth Covid-19 wave

[LCBXX]

We hope, and so do the developers. But they don't always get it right ...... And that is why trials are required.

And it is about understanding that "immunity" does NOT mean not getting infected. It is about your immune system being prepared and ready to spring into action when you do get infected.

We're in one of the biggest pharmaceutical trails in human history, with Africa as the control group.

Why people are so upset with those who don't want to vaccinate but not upset with China unleashing the virus upon the globe, is beyond me.

 

[porchrat]

You're making assumptions in favour for the Covd vaccine over naturally gained immunity from recovering from Covid.

Not at all, read the edits in my post you quoted where I expand on this. We have figures on the negative reactions to these vaccines and we know they're far lower than the reactions to the disease itself.

For many of us, we simply don't have the capability to deal with this virus on our own naturally. The natural immunity route is not a safe option for those people and you have no way of knowing if you're one of them or not.

 

[LCBXX]

Not at all, we have figures on the negative reactions to these vaccines and we know they're far lower than the reactions to the disease itselfm read the edits in my post you quoted where I expand on this.

For many of us, we simply don't have the capability to deal with this virus on our own naturally. The natural immunity route is not a safe option for those people and you have no way of knowing if you're one of them or not.

The many fat, affluent, ones, who are unhealthy and sickly because they are fat?

 

[porchrat]

The many fat, affluent, ones, who are unhealthy and sickly because they are fat?

Obesity is a comorbidity, it's not the only thing though. You can believe yourself to be perfectly healthy and still end up dying. As I said, you have no way of knowing how you're going to react to COVID. It's a completely avoidable unnecessary risk.

I hope I've helped you to better understand what is meant by a "vaccine" and what is meant by "immunity" and why this COVID vaccine is indeed a vaccine and does indeed provide immunity.

I also hope that you take away from this discussion why there are clear benefits to taking this vaccine.

 

[Barbarian Conan]

Go on, rip it apart point by point.

Porchrat is already doing a great job of it.
I don't have his knowledge or patience, so I will leave it to him.

Also, based on what I've seen so far I don't know if you are unable to comprehend even the most basic concepts of immunology or if you are just unwilling to learn anything new or consider anything counter to what you want to hear.
So I think I'll not waste more of my time.

 

[LCBXX]

Porchrat is already doing a great job of it.
I don't have his knowledge or patience, so I will leave it to him.

It's nice not having to think these days.

Another soy-latte?

 

[Barbarian Conan]

We're in one of the biggest pharmaceutical trails in human history, with Africa as the control group.

Why people are so upset with those who don't want to vaccinate but not upset with China unleashing the virus upon the globe, is beyond me.

Because not us nor the US nor China can do anything to prevent China from unleashing the virus 2 years ago?
We can however do the best we can to deal with it, and the best way to deal with it according to the experts is to get vaccinated.

 

[Barbarian Conan]

It's nice not having to think these days.

Another soy-latte?

See my edit.

 

[Geoff.D]

It's a completely avoidable unnecessary risk.

It is not a completely avoidable unnecessary risk. The risk is always there. You can reduce the risk by getting jabbed but you cannot ever reduce that risk to zero, and neither can you avoid it completely until the virus gets eradicated.

This entire game is NOT about absolutes. There are no absolutes in medicine, there are no guarantees.
The are very few absolutes in science either. There is always the possibility that any existing theory or scientific fact will get challenged sometime in the future.

 

[LCBXX]

Obesity is a comorbidity, it's not the only thing though. You can believe yourself to be perfectly healthy and still end up dying. As I said, you have no way of knowing how you're going to react to COVID. It's a completely avoidable unnecessary risk.

I hope I've helped you to better understand what is meant by a "vaccine" and what is meant by "immunity" and why this COVID vaccine is indeed a vaccine and does indeed provide immunity.

I also hope that you take away from this discussion why there are clear benefits to taking this vaccine.

If the mainstream numbers are to be believed, your risk of severely suffering or dying from Covid is 70%+ higher if you're fat and unhealthy. I see this within my own circle as well; trawling Facebook for people posting themselves in hospital, sweaty and gasping for oxygen, reveals many chubby cheeks, double chins and bulging bellies.

Off course it's a lot harder to change your lifestyle to improve your health and wellbeing, versus getting a prick (or 2/3) and being in chronic meds.

Those who want to get vaccinated must do so. Those who are fat and unhealthy needs to get vaccinated quicker.

That said, it's still up to them and nobody must be forced into getting it unless they are also forced to achieve a healthy BMI and improve their health as well.

 

[LCBXX]

Because not us nor the US nor China can do anything to prevent China from unleashing the virus 2 years ago?
We can however do the best we can to deal with it, and the best way to deal with it according to the experts is to get vaccinated.

So obedient.

 

[porchrat]

It is not a completely avoidable unnecessary risk. The risk is always there. You can reduce the risk by getting jabbed but you cannot ever reduce that risk to zero, and neither can you avoid it completely until the virus gets eradicated.

This entire game is NOT about absolutes. There are no absolutes in medicine, there are no guarantees.
The are very few absolutes in science either. There is always the possibility that any existing theory or scientific fact will get challenged sometime in the future.

Yes you're correct. Well spotted.

There are no absolutes. It's more accurate to say that we can reduce the risk pretty darn dramatically.

 

[porchrat]

If the mainstream numbers are to be believed, your risk of severely suffering or dying from Covid is 70%+ higher if you're fat and unhealthy. I see this within my own circle as well; trawling Facebook for people posting themselves in hospital, sweaty and gasping for oxygen, reveals many chubby cheeks, double chins and bulging bellies.

Off course it's a lot harder to change your lifestyle to improve your health and wellbeing, versus getting a prick (or 2/3) and being in chronic meds.

Those who want to get vaccinated must do so. Those who are fat and unhealthy needs to get vaccinated quicker.

That said, it's still up to them and nobody must be forced into getting it unless they are also forced to achieve a healthy BMI and improve their health as well.

Yes, as I mentioned obesity is a comorbidity. It's however not the only aspect that impacts this. The world's experts don't know what they all are, so you and I definitely don't know.

As I said, you have no way of knowing how you will react. You can largely mitigate this risk by taking the vaccine (which again, we have the figures for, it's orders of magnitude safer than getting the disease). It's a no-brainer.

EDIT: It also has the wonderful side effect of reducing transmission. So taking it doesn't just help you, it helps others around you that for various reason can't take the vaccine.

 

[Geoff.D]

The world's experts don't know what they all are, so you and I definitely don't know.

This. It has taken 2 years to find out the most dominant and serious ones sure.

 

[LCBXX]

Yes, as I mentioned obesity is a comorbidity. It's however not the only aspect that impacts this. The world's experts don't know what they all are, so you and I definitely don't know.

As I said, you have no way of knowing how you will react. You can largely mitigate this risk by taking the vaccine (which again, we have the figures for, it's orders of magnitude safer than getting the disease). It's a no-brainer.

Interesting: You label the choice to get a Covid vaccine a no-brainer; what would you label the choice not to get vaccinated?

 

[porchrat]

Interesting: You label the choice to get a Covid vaccine a no-brainer; what would you label the choice not to get vaccinated?

Also a no-brainer, but of a different sort.

Jokes and insults aside, I think it's largely driven by ignorance of how these vaccines are developed and the technology behind them.

 

[LCBXX]

Also a no-brainer, but of a different sort.

Jokes and insults aside, I think it's largely driven by ignorance of how these vaccines are developed and the technology behind them.

What's it to you if someone isn't vaccinated?

 

[Geoff.D]

Also a no-brainer, but of a different sort.

Jokes and insults aside, I think it's largely driven by ignorance of how these vaccines are developed and the technology behind them.

Aided and abetted by numerous movies dating back to the "Hulk" and Dr Jekkel and Mr Hyde.

Playing around with DNA and RNA ----- don't go there you are going to turn people into lizards, you are playing God. Those sentiments are very very difficult to counter and will probably always be difficult.


And our govt and the world govts have done a terrible job of informing people.

 

[porchrat]

What's it to you if someone isn't vaccinated?

As I've already mentioned, they pack hospitals with severe reactions, taking up a space that someone who, for legitimate medical reasons, may not have been able to take that vaccine or who suffered a breakthrough (i.e. an infection that was unavoidable).

They also remain infective longer when they get it, further endangering those same vulnerable members of our society (and me with the potential for breakthrough infections).

Having said that I don't support mandatory vaccination. I'm all for institutions restricting access to those who are vaccinated, that's their choice and right in a free society, but the state shouldn't be forcing us.

 

[LCBXX]

As I've already mentioned, they pack hospitals with severe reactions, taking up a space that someone who, for legitimate medical reasons, may not have been able to take that vaccine or who suffered a breakthrough (i.e. an infection that was unavoidable).

They also remain infective longer when they get it, further endangering those same vulnerable members of our society (and me with the potential for breakthrough infections).

Having said that I don't support mandatory vaccination. I'm all for institutions restricting access to those who are vaccinated, that's their choice and right in a free society, but the state shouldn't be forcing us.

Fat, and consequently unhealthy, people have been packing the hospitals for decades, hogging resources that would be otherwise available for those seeking legitimate hospitalisation. Where's the outrage?