South Africa National Drug master plan 2012-2016.

AstroTurf

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Thought this deserves it's own topic.

The scourge of substance abuse continues to ravage our communities, families and particularly our youth, the more so as it goes hand in hand with poverty, crime, reduced productivity, unemployment, dysfunctional family life, escalation of chronic diseases and premature death. South Africa needs to address the problem of substance abuse in partnership with other African countries without regard to issues of economic class, race, colour, gender and the professional status of an individual. Substance abuse is a cause of great concern, given the fight to restore Africa to its rightful place in the world. The ability to implement effectively a coordinated, multi-pronged plan that takes cognisance of legal, health and socio-economic issues and is supported by all spheres of government and all sectors of society is key to this process.
The revised National Drug Master Plan 2012-2016 is South Africa’s answer to this challenge. It has been designed to serve as the basis for holistic and cost-effective strategies to reduce the demand for and supply of drugs and the harm associated with their use and abuse. Ultimately the plan is intended to help realise the vision of a substance-abuse free society where the effect of drugs will be so reduced that more attention can be focused on raising the quality of life of the poor and vulnerable and of developing the people to achieve their true potential. In comparison with the second National Drug Master Plan 2006-2011, the focus in the revised plan is more on the delivery of interventions that not only are informed by best practices and evidence but are designed to meet the defined needs of the communities in combating the scourge of substance use, abuse- and dependence in their neighbourhoods.

http://www.capetown.gov.za/en/drugs/Documents/National_Drug_Master-Plan_2012-2016_June-20-2011.pdf

It is quite different to the traditional way that SA has always dealt with drugs and users.
Rehabilitation centres are up in arms due to this but with an average national success rate of 3% (and I am pretty sure this is higher than it actually is by at the very least 1.5%) I think it's time SANCA and ilk step aside. That experiment has failed completely. The only people rehabilitation centres help is themselves. Their clients (no, not patients) are simply another form of income.
 

deweyzeph

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Legalisation is the only solution to the drug problem. The criminalisation of drug use is the cause of most of the problems around drug use.
 

Swa

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From that alone I can't see why anyone would be against it. Something else we are not being told?
 

RiaX

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Legalisation is the only solution to the drug problem. The criminalisation of drug use is the cause of most of the problems around drug use.

really ? thats like saying legalising drinking and driving will stop people from doing it... this makes no sense. People will do it whether its legal or illegal because they want too not because they being rebel scum.

The solution is not easy people tend to make rehab and combating drugs a simple thing. People need a vice a release. I also think that money isnt the only factor it is significant it is cheaper taking a hit than going out but then if that where the case people wouldnt be doing designer drugs and high end drugs like cocaine (the powder not crack cocaine)

Then the next issue is some of these addictions require serious medical attention, people can die if its not done correctly
 

Seriously

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Words, just empty words. That all that happens in South Africa. The only achievement we reached are the rampant corruption in the higher echelon of government and public service.
 
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kripstoe

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At least its more (and better) than whatever the Department of Pule (Communications) is doing. But that's not saying much. :(
 

AstroTurf

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From that alone I can't see why anyone would be against it. Something else we are not being told?

it is simple.
1. Proposing a rethink on the entire cannabis thing.
2. The rehabs (that have a success rate of 3% officially and in reality even less) will end up losing a ton of cash.
 

AstroTurf

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really ? thats like saying legalising drinking and driving will stop people from doing it... this makes no sense. People will do it whether its legal or illegal because they want too not because they being rebel scum.

The solution is not easy people tend to make rehab and combating drugs a simple thing. People need a vice a release. I also think that money isnt the only factor it is significant it is cheaper taking a hit than going out but then if that where the case people wouldnt be doing designer drugs and high end drugs like cocaine (the powder not crack cocaine)

Then the next issue is some of these addictions require serious medical attention, people can die if its not done correctly

Yep, people will do it no matter the law but in the current system people are dying due to no regulation in strength or contents of purchase (buy a rock and it can have anything from chlorine to ephedrine in it, buy a gram of coke and chances are you are snorting anything from crushed glass to sleeping tablets and so on). Due to the taboo people are ashamed to ask for help when they need it and often times can't even afford the help due to the cost of rehabilitation centres.

Anyway, Current reasons of death for drug users I can think of.
Crap in the product (lack of regulation).
Overdose (mostly due to lack of regulation).
Location of purchase (lack of regulation).
Nature of dealers (lack of regulation).
Location of use (lack of regulation).
Lack of true support for those that want to get off and don't have a rich mommy/daddy that can blow R20K+ on a 1 month to 6 week dry out period.
Shared needles and other paraphernalia (lack of regulation).
And lastly, withdrawal (Face it, only heroin, chemist drugs and on occasion alcohol kills in this way, also due to lack of regulation).

"Combating" drugs has been tried for around 90 years now, it is a total, utter failure, regulation is the only viable step.
Designer drugs are a direct result of the war on drugs and in most cases are even worse than the drugs they are trying to duplicate (in a successful attempt to profit from the lack of regulation).
 

Nick333

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really ? thats like saying legalising drinking and driving will stop people from doing it... this makes no sense. People will do it whether its legal or illegal because they want too not because they being rebel scum.

The solution is not easy people tend to make rehab and combating drugs a simple thing. People need a vice a release. I also think that money isnt the only factor it is significant it is cheaper taking a hit than going out but then if that where the case people wouldnt be doing designer drugs and high end drugs like cocaine (the powder not crack cocaine)

Then the next issue is some of these addictions require serious medical attention, people can die if its not done correctly

How is it the same? In the case of drugs deregulation solves a lot of problems related to drug use and trafficing. Examples being prohibition of alcohol in the US and the legalisation of drugs in Holland.

People have always used mind altering substances and they always will regardless of laws. In impoverished communities substance abuse is always a problem. You don't solve the problem by turning poor people into criminals - in fact, that's how you make the problem worse. You solve the problem by uplifting people.
 

rubytox

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Yep, people will do it no matter the law but in the current system people are dying due to no regulation in strength or contents of purchase (buy a rock and it can have anything from chlorine to ephedrine in it, buy a gram of coke and chances are you are snorting anything from crushed glass to sleeping tablets and so on). Due to the taboo people are ashamed to ask for help when they need it and often times can't even afford the help due to the cost of rehabilitation centres.

Anyway, Current reasons of death for drug users I can think of.
Crap in the product (lack of regulation).
Overdose (mostly due to lack of regulation).
Location of purchase (lack of regulation).
Nature of dealers (lack of regulation).
Location of use (lack of regulation).
Lack of true support for those that want to get off and don't have a rich mommy/daddy that can blow R20K+ on a 1 month to 6 week dry out period.
Shared needles and other paraphernalia (lack of regulation).
And lastly, withdrawal (Face it, only heroin, chemist drugs and on occasion alcohol kills in this way, also due to lack of regulation).

"Combating" drugs has been tried for around 90 years now, it is a total, utter failure, regulation is the only viable step.
Designer drugs are a direct result of the war on drugs and in most cases are even worse than the drugs they are trying to duplicate (in a successful attempt to profit from the lack of regulation).

Why intervene with nature's way of controlling an over populated world?
 

RiaX

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How is it the same? In the case of drugs deregulation solves a lot of problems related to drug use and trafficing. Examples being prohibition of alcohol in the US and the legalisation of drugs in Holland.

People have always used mind altering substances and they always will regardless of laws. In impoverished communities substance abuse is always a problem. You don't solve the problem by turning poor people into criminals - in fact, that's how you make the problem worse. You solve the problem by uplifting people.

what are you talking about holland has the biggest problem with drug trafficing Rotterdamn harbor is one of the main export points for the world distribution chain. The cost of screening the containers alone is enormous. Holland has many deaths due to serious drug abuse and now they cant leash back the animal they let loose. If you have actually read a report or journal instead of wide spread media you wouldnt fall for that popular belief

The US is pointless example, it works on a pure democratic system and that does not mean it is correct. In case you have forgotten its not illegal to buy armani clothes but there is a black market for it. In the US you can buy a gun fairly easily but there is a black market for it. In the case of weed you dont need to legalise ingesting the raw ingredient they have more refined more potent synthetics on the market already so your medical claim is invalid.

Legalising a substance will not remove the criminal activities in that area. All it will achieve to do is cause people who normally wouldnt be exposed to such substances be given access to them.

There is a black market for cocaine (its still a medicine in SA)
benzos
clothes
guns
tobacco
alcohol

furthermore how is legalising drugs uplifting people ? those that sell it and profit from these substances generally dont use them its precious stock. Secondly with the harder substances people are unable to replicate that first high so they use more substance trying to chase it and obtain that amazing first hit and that is the fly trap that results in more money being spent. They dont have money they steal it. They unable to work because their brains are FRIED and they baked, just like a heavy alcoholic. Though you cant drink everyday and still keep a job ... try doing that with crack or heroin

ask any one who has smoked crack/ice/rock what ever they call the cocaine base and they will tell you they are unable to get that same high. These people dont work because they are getting high not because they poor. They fall into the drug trap because drugs are cheap and provide an excellent source of entertainment but there is a catch.

Hence the solution is not as easy as legalising things.
 
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AstroTurf

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what are you talking about holland has the biggest problem with drug trafficing Rotterdamn harbor is one of the main export points for the world distribution chain. The cost of screening the containers alone is enormous. Holland has many deaths due to serious drug abuse and now they cant leash back the animal they let loose. If you have actually read a report or journal instead of wide spread media you wouldnt fall for that popular belief

The US is pointless example, it works on a pure democratic system and that does not mean it is correct. In case you have forgotten its not illegal to buy armani clothes but there is a black market for it. In the US you can buy a gun fairly easily but there is a black market for it. In the case of weed you dont need to legalise ingesting the raw ingredient they have more refined more potent synthetics on the market already so your medical claim is invalid.

Legalising a substance will not remove the criminal activities in that area. All it will achieve to do is cause people who normally wouldnt be exposed to such substances be given access to them.

There is a black market for cocaine (its still a medicine in SA)
benzos
clothes
guns
tobacco
alcohol

furthermore how is legalising drugs uplifting people ? those that sell it and profit from these substances generally dont use them its precious stock. Secondly with the harder substances people are unable to replicate that first high so they use more substance trying to chase it and obtain that amazing first hit and that is the fly trap that results in more money being spent. They dont have money they steal it. They unable to work because their brains are FRIED and they baked, just like a heavy alcoholic. Though you cant drink everyday and still keep a job ... try doing that with crack or heroin

ask any one who has smoked crack/ice/rock what ever they call the cocaine base and they will tell you they are unable to get that same high. These people dont work because they are getting high not because they poor. They fall into the drug trap because drugs are cheap and provide an excellent source of entertainment but there is a catch.

Hence the solution is not as easy as legalising things.

The Dutch policy on drugs has been reasonably successful compared to the policies pursued in other countries, especially when it comes to prevention and care. The number of users of various types of drugs is no greater than in other countries, while the figure for drug-related deaths, at 2.4 per million inhabitants, is the lowest in Europe.
http://www.holland.com/us/tourism/article/dutch-drug-policy.htm
Refute this (you can't because you are talking bull.).

Marinol is around US $600 for 30 tablets (10 to 15 days, R12000 to R18000 per month). so you reckon using a THC synthetic that has none of the cannabinoids, amino acids, and terepines in at around 200X to 400x the price is the better solution?

Legalising a substance will allow regulation, quality control, taxes and have many other advantages. You realise most of these substances are made by subsidence farmers? Dirt poor people simply because the system allows them to be exploited.

Who are these people that would normally not be exposed? That is bull and you know it. Someone wants drugs they will get them very easily no matter the legality. The only difference now is that there is much more risk involved that the person will not even take into account until it is to late.

What's with the red herring?

Take a look at what American states are doing with tax from cannabis.
Also, get a bit educated on the subsidence farmers, the billions per month the drug cartels are making (not to mention the terrorists drugs are currently funding), the people getting arrested and the results of them spending time in prison and rehab (they don't call these criminal colleges for nothing).
You really think that removing a huge chunk of the bread and butter from criminal hands and putting it to a better use is a bad thing?

That "amazing first hit" thing you are talking about only applies to a small amount of drugs available and then only when used in a certain form. most drugs are not like that. you try take to much LSD over a very short period of time and it has zero effect. Try again a week later and you will have that original high. Same goes for just about every drug out there (the ones that do not mess with your dopamine levels mostly, also opiates and it's evil synthetic spawn, codeine, let's not forget the worst evil on the planet, alcohol).

I was a crack addict. I tried several rehabs and spent easily a year in institutions trying to get off it. Eventually I resigned my job I had for 4 years (while an addict) and went walk about, Cannabis got me off crack. Today I don't use anything. Yet again you are talking bull and have no idea about the topic at hand.

Legislation and legalisation are two different things but I personally believe cannabis should be 100% legal for any adult to use.
 

RiaX

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Marinol is around US $600 for 30 tablets (10 to 15 days, R12000 to R18000 per month). so you reckon using a THC synthetic that has none of the cannabinoids, amino acids, and terepines in at around 200X to 400x the price is the better solution?

for medical purpose then yes. There are too many compounds within the plant to quantify it. Its the same reason you use asprin instead of smoking/humidifying/making elixirs out of willowbark. More refined more potent safer and easier to manage. Its the same reason you dont eat the soil molds thats antibiotics come from instead you take a refine beta-lactam or rifamycin or whatever. Again this is just an excuse and a poor one, if you want to get high then say so dont use medicine as a cheap excuse.

Look into nicotine vs tobacco. Nicotine is actually good for you (neuroprotective) however using a tobacco product is not.

Medicine is a science it has to be precise. I wonder if you would do this if you required brain surgery ? tell the surgeon not to do an MRI and take you straight to theatre and operate to save costs .... you might read this and go well thats completely different but in reality it isnt.

Legalising a substance will allow regulation, quality control, taxes and have many other advantages. You realise most of these substances are made by subsidence farmers? Dirt poor people simply because the system allows them to be exploited.

yes this is true. One person is employed other is broken. Though its not the poor person benefiting is it ? the farmers in columbia are still dirt poor.

Who are these people that would normally not be exposed? That is bull and you know it

Children. Since anti-tobacco laws and awareness campaigns there are lower new smokers. Though one could argue this all day the argument is very valid from both sides.

Someone wants drugs they will get them very easily no matter the legality

Yup but if its difficult to obtain or there are penalties to obtaining it then that will stop some becoming users.

You really think that removing a huge chunk of the bread and butter from criminal hands and putting it to a better use is a bad thing?

You wont stop them nor will you slow them down. They will just move to more dangerous more potent substances again europe is a good example of this. Cannibis itself isnt a problem but the heavier ones are.

That "amazing first hit" thing you are talking about only applies to a small amount of drugs available and then only when used in a certain form. most drugs are not like that. you try take to much LSD over a very short period of time and it has zero effect.

anecdotal. The literature suggests otherwise. Again LSD is different, pharmacologically harmless psychologically dangerous though it applies to a small percentage of users. I wonder why people have a higher risk ending up a nutcase using this "safe" lsd yet they advocate it. Autism in vaccines and suddendly people dont vaccinate their kids ..... strange

I was a crack addict. I tried several rehabs and spent easily a year in institutions trying to get off it. Eventually I resigned my job I had for 4 years

Yup lost job lost income. I commend you in becoming clean it takes tremendous willpower. However you left your job and most users are unable to do what you do. They often polydrug users and are addicted to more than one substance. Thats the point of banning these substance to prevent people from becoming users if you already a user then your situation is different.

Cannabis got me off crack.

anecdotal again.

I personally believe cannabis should be 100% legal for any adult to use.

Personally I agree, if you want to get high then get high cannabis is as dangerous as smoking tobacco. The problem is when you allow people to abuse cocaine and heroin.

As per your link, thats a tourist link obviously they not going to state the facts they advertising their country. South Africa has tourist sites too and it wont say "come here you might get hijacked" ... anyways when my database is back online I will look for the evidence.
 

Swa

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RiaX talking *** and irrelevant points as usual.
 

RiaX

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:rolleyes: this is why rehab fails. People dont listen

<removed>
 
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AstroTurf

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:rolleyes: this is why rehab fails. People dont listen

well if a former crack head thinks he knows something ... ok then have fun. Since you use satellites im sure you can build those too :p

Rehabs fail because they are flawed. the statistics speak for themselves but you are welcome to ignore them as they do not suit your agenda.

I see no reason why I would not be able to build a sattelite if I had around 18 years first hand experience in the field.
 

AstroTurf

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for medical purpose then yes. There are too many compounds within the plant to quantify it. Its the same reason you use asprin instead of smoking/humidifying/making elixirs out of willowbark. More refined more potent safer and easier to manage. Its the same reason you dont eat the soil molds thats antibiotics come from instead you take a refine beta-lactam or rifamycin or whatever. Again this is just an excuse and a poor one, if you want to get high then say so dont use medicine as a cheap excuse.
http://adjusthealth.info/health-new...-caused-by-aspirin-and-painkillers-every-year
Compare that to the fatalities of cannabis in the last 200 years (you will find it to be a total of zero).

This is the same reason we all drink vitamin pills and live off a carbohydrate based gruel instead of having a healthy daily intake of fruit, veggies, protein and all the rest. The same reason nobody experiments with biofules and all use the refined gasolines made by the pro's. The same reason pot stills and reflux still are only ever found in breweries. Anyway, sarcasm aside, even though bigfarm would like to be the only way humanity can medicate itself it is not. Thankfully there are still cloves in the world for toothache, Rosemary and mint with a dash of honey for headaches and many more very successful and safer means of getting rid of the little niggles in life.
Tell you one thing though, if I get cancer I will not be using chemo:
http://norml-uk.org/2012/08/cannabis-can-cure-cancer/
http://www.chrisbeatcancer.com/lindsey-cures-colon-cancer-with-cannabis-in-48-days/
http://www.cureyourowncancer.org/testimonials.html
http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2012/10/cannabis_cures_cancer_look_at_me_im_cancer_free.php
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/cancer-healing/140579-cannabis-oil-cured-my-cancer.html

But for many other aspects of illness I would go to a hospital or gp.


Look into nicotine vs tobacco. Nicotine is actually good for you (neuroprotective) however using a tobacco product is not.
I really hope you are not a chemist or perhaps you should give full details when you try and use a deadly poison (pure nicotine is a killer) as an example.

Medicine is a science it has to be precise. I wonder if you would do this if you required brain surgery ? tell the surgeon not to do an MRI and take you straight to theatre and operate to save costs .... you might read this and go well thats completely different but in reality it isnt.

If I required brain surgery I would go through the whole process after a 2n'd opinion and researching the nature of the disease/anomoly requiring me to have my head cut open.
It's obviously not black and white but in the name of profit and fear mongering alternatives are taboo.



yes this is true. One person is employed other is broken. Though its not the poor person benefiting is it ? the farmers in columbia are still dirt poor.
Of course they are. they get it from both sides. On the one side they have the US poisoning crops, on the other they have to deal with hardened criminals. Just for interest sake, each time the Americans try and kill the crops in one area the growing spreads to several more. In an attempt to detroy something they are spreading it.

Children. Since anti-tobacco laws and awareness campaigns there are lower new smokers. Though one could argue this all day the argument is very valid from both sides.

Very valid from both sides indeed. The taboo and the current system does not give anybody the knowledge they need so they go out and do it anyway. The places where regulation has been used and is being used are having a decline in addicts.


Yup but if its difficult to obtain or there are penalties to obtaining it then that will stop some becoming users.
In theory, in practice all you have is forbidden fruit (even more enticing due to it's status).


You wont stop them nor will you slow them down. They will just move to more dangerous more potent substances again europe is a good example of this. Cannibis itself isnt a problem but the heavier ones are.
The parts of europt that are following the American dream yes, the parts of europe that are regulating and reforming laws have in fact got a decline in heavier drug addicts and users.


anecdotal. The literature suggests otherwise. Again LSD is different, pharmacologically harmless psychologically dangerous though it applies to a small percentage of users. I wonder why people have a higher risk ending up a nutcase using this "safe" lsd yet they advocate it. Autism in vaccines and suddendly people dont vaccinate their kids ..... strange

What literature or are we taling about your expensive imaginary books again?


Yup lost job lost income. I commend you in becoming clean it takes tremendous willpower. However you left your job and most users are unable to do what you do. They often polydrug users and are addicted to more than one substance. Thats the point of banning these substance to prevent people from becoming users if you already a user then your situation is different.

Resigned my job as I wanted a life change. Many people do this every day, the drug use is the ancedotal part in this.


anecdotal again.

Yet millions will tell you exactly the same.




Personally I agree, if you want to get high then get high cannabis is as dangerous as smoking tobacco. The problem is when you allow people to abuse cocaine and heroin.

How many people have died from tobacco in the last hour?
Howmany from cannabis in the last 100 years?


As per your link, thats a tourist link obviously they not going to state the facts they advertising their country. South Africa has tourist sites too and it wont say "come here you might get hijacked" ... anyways when my database is back online I will look for the evidence.

You have google, you will find the same information across the web :)

Also, Watch breaking the taboo with morgan freeman if you really are interested in the current debate.
You may need to torrent it though, will be on tv this year so it has been removed from the web for now.
http://www.youtube.com/user/breakingthetaboofilm
 
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