South Africa sued over plans to build coal power plants

[Johnatan56]

refer to Europe for what happens when you move away from something that works and try to replace it with something that does not work (hint, you end up paying out your ass to get the old dirty power back):

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

You keep reposting this nonsense again and again, Europe hasn't fully moved to renewable yet, it's just started.
And you're linking gas prices, those systems that are gas have been used as such for decades (most of Europe swapped to it in the 1960's for heating homes, e.g. Netherlands is over 90% gas since then: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20211025-netherlands-the-end-of-europes-largest-gas-field), gas cost price increase has been a case of Asia increasing demand so less went to Europe, and Putin wants Nord 2, has nothing to do with renewable.

Going renewable will generally improve the power situation for most of Europe, it's a cheap source of power and doesn't harm the environment as much. And no, it won't be overnight, and yes, there will be issues during the transition (e.g. Germany maxed grid from north to south, so they are re-routing power through their neighbors to get to the South).

 

[Sapphiron]

We need base load unfortunately. All across Europe they're struggling now because they tried to deny that.

The base load doesn't necessarily have to be coal, but if it isn't it's more than likely nuclear.

I don't know about you but after seeing how badly this ANC-ified Eskom borked coal power stations (a technology the company is supposed to be very very familiar with), I don't want them trying to build a nuclear power station.

True, but given how varied and rich our wind and solar resources are, we need a lot less of it.

Also, natural gas is simpler and makes for much cleaner base load and peaking power. Just so long as you don't end up paying 1000% cadre tax on it.

Also, Thermal solar is excellent for handling evening peaks.

 

[system32]

100% Just to add some facts

Kusile Power station was initiated in 2009
Initially expected to take 6 years to complete, the project was not expected to complete Unit 1 until 2017 (approximately 8 years after works began) and the entire project not until 2021.

Medupi Power station was initiated in 2007
Completion of the first two units was expected by 2012 but The first unit was commissioned and handed over on 23 August 2015. Units 5 to 1 was completed at approximately nine-month intervals thereafter.(August 2019)

So plus minus 10 years to build a coal power station (Add a few more years since we have doubled/tripled in corruption since then)

You/Wikipedia getting ahead of yourself... (as of Nov 2021):
Kusile:
Only 3/6 units working/completed and rest expected to be completed by 2025
That's more than 16 years to complete.

Medupi:
Medupi is not complete as the flue gas desulphurisation (FGD) has not been installed - even though World Bank gave Eskom $3.75b specifically for FGD - funds were used elsewhere aka misappropriated.
In Aug 2021, there was an explosion at Medupi which took out Unit 4 and needs replacing eta 2-3 years.

With all the malfunctions, the new plants work like old plants and have low energy availability factor (EAF):
Medup: 62% EAF with 5 units
Kusile: 24% EAF with 3 units

 

[system32]

We need base load unfortunately. All across Europe they're struggling now because they tried to deny that.

The base load doesn't necessarily have to be coal, but if it isn't it's more than likely nuclear.

I don't know about you but after seeing how badly this ANC-ified Eskom borked coal power stations (a technology the company is supposed to be very very familiar with), I don't want them trying to build a nuclear power station.

The centralised "baseload" supply is outdated.
Flexibility of supply from many smaller dispersed sources & locations is what is being switched to.

See http://www.epse.uct.ac.za/sites/def...eneration capacity from nuclear_AcknFixed.pdf
page 3 for comments on "baseload"

The issues in Europe are many - such as Russia forcing Nord2, China buying more gas.

 

[porchrat]

The centralised "baseload" supply is outdated.
Flexibility of supply from many smaller dispersed sources & locations is what is being switched to.

See http://www.epse.uct.ac.za/sites/default/files/image_tool/images/363/ESRG/Publications/2021_ESRG_Comments for NERSA on the procurement of 2500 MW new generation capacity from nuclear_AcknFixed.pdf
page 3 for comments on "baseload"

The issues in Europe are many - such as Russia forcing Nord2, China buying more gas.

but Europe has all that dispersed energy. It should just stop buying that gas and just use all that awesome dispersed power.

The concept of base load is a minimum reliable source of energy required to meet your minimum need 24/7. There is no renewable energy source that meets those criteria. You can put renewables on top of that, but they're not always reliable. They cannot form the entire energy platform.

Sorry baba.

 

[Iwojima]

“New coal-fired power flies in the face of our constitutional right to an environment not harmful to health and wellbeing, not only for the present generations but for future ones too,” Nicole Loser, Programme Head: Pollution and Climate Change at the Centre for Environmental Rights, a legal group representing the activists, said in a statement on Wednesday.

How apt.

 

[tjma2001]

Marginal cost of producing electricity when the sun is not shining and the wind is not blowing, on a renewable grid, is infinite.

Renewables are a scam on grid scale. The only humane thing to do is burn all the coal that we have in the most efficient way possible to provide as cheap energy as possible that South Africans can actually pay for.

Renewables will drive up the cost of power generation and is only possible with massive subsidies which we the TAX payer end up paying for anyway through our increased taxes.

Higher electricity costs increase the costs of starting businesses and increase the cost to produce goods at scale locally. Want to compete with the Chinese? You need cheaper power mate. Otherwise, enjoy being a nation of energy poverty cucks.

You think coal energy is bad for the environment, wait till you see what no energy does for the environment. Say goodbye to all your trees and your pristine environment. Say goodbye to preserving natural environments, water treatments, and the ability to weather adverse weather events.

Just imagine going all renewable and we experience a freak weather event where its super cloudy for a week or a month. Or the wind is too strong and you can no longer run your turbines.

 

[Neptuner]

refer to Europe for what happens when you move away from something that works and try to replace it with something that does not work (hint, you end up paying out your ass to get the old dirty power back):

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

Seems everyone is so bent on this idea of transitioning quickly away from forms of Energy producing high emissions, that they blinded and are unable to see that the same nations who are rooting for these treatise to transition still appear to be very much reliant on these sources of energy.

 

[Thor]

I have the greenies win and he ends up in jail.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

You keep reposting this nonsense again and again

article dated 16 November 2021

"again and again" ... Jesus, I must be John Conner, travelling back from the dystopian future to educate your ignorance

 

[system32]

but Europe has all that dispersed energy. It should just stop buying that gas and just use all that awesome dispersed power.

The concept of base load is a minimum reliable source of energy required to meet your minimum need 24/7. There is no renewable energy source that meets those criteria. You can put renewables on top of that, but they're not always reliable. They cannot form the entire energy platform.

Sorry baba.

You jumping ahead of yourself as EU is not yet renewable - still moving to renewables - but it's a journey - takes years to transition - there will be issues on the journey.
EU is dispersed and the grid is being build to allow cross border feeds - also still not completed.
Give it some time - they not off fossil yet.

Baseload is a term that refers to sources (such as coal) that can't be ramped up/down based on demand and has nothing to do with reliability.

Renewables are reliable - the term you looking for is "intermittent".

 

[JohnStarr]

Probably flies to the location on a Boeing or drives an ICE car to get to the protest event!

 

[Pieterdt]

So how viable will this be for the future, as per the article it seems the best option if one takes into the consideration that the need for electricity will just increase as the need for technology increases. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesc...-nuclear-batteries-do-for-us/?sh=79297666e9dd

 

[porchrat]

You jumping ahead of yourself as EU is not yet renewable - still moving to renewables - but it's a journey - takes years to transition - there will be issues on the journey.
EU is dispersed and the grid is being build to allow cross border feeds - also still not completed.
Give it some time - they not off fossil yet.

Baseload is a term that refers to sources (such as coal) that can't be ramped up/down based on demand and has nothing to do with reliability.

No, base load refers to a reliable source of energy to supply your minimum needs (i.e. not peak). That means it needs to be able to supply those needs constantly, when the sun's shining, at 2am, when the wind is blowing and when it isn't. Google is your friend here.

What you're referring to is a "base load power plant".

Renewables are reliable - the term you looking for is "intermittent".

Reliable and intermittent here are synonyms. If something is intermittent it cannot be relied upon to supply power when needed. We use a word in English to describe this "unreliable".

 

[system32]

No, base load refers to a reliable source of energy to supply your minimum needs (i.e. not peak). That means it needs to be able to supply those needs constantly, when the sun's shining, at 2am, when the wind is blowing and when it isn't. Google is your friend here.

What you're referring to is a "base load power plant".

Reliable and intermittent here are synonyms. If something is intermittent it cannot be relied upon to supply power when needed. We use a word in English to describe this "unreliable".

I take my definitions from people that do research and not some wanabe coal expert on myBB.

Please read this http://www.epse.uct.ac.za/sites/def...eneration capacity from nuclear_AcknFixed.pdf

For your benefit:

"General comment concerning the concept of ‘baseload’ capacity ​

​

Baseload in essence is the idea that only certain kinds of plants can supply power ​

in large, continuously available quantities. The term stems from historical ​

alignment between minimum electricity demand (the ‘base’ demand or ‘load’), ​

and the profile and economics of generators such as large coal and nuclear ​

plants. In the past it was cheapest to run these large generators at close to their ​

maximum capacity, with limited variance in output. This led to these base supply ​

generators dominating many electricity systems. Today, the rapid and ​

widespread uptake of gas and renewable generators worldwide has shown that ​

electricity systems can function effectively with many smaller plants supplying ​

similar power generation capacity. That “baseload” has become outdated and ​

that flexibility is the new imperative for electricity systems has been recognized ​

by leading organisations: including the International Energy Agency2 and by the ​

leaders of large power grids, including the UK’s National Grid3; the California ​

Independent System Operator,4 and the Australian Electricity Market Operator5,​

all of whom are actively managing grids with high and growing penetrations of ​

renewables already. ​

​

See:​

2 https://www.iea.org/reports/status-of-power-system-transformation-2019 ​

3 Steve Holliday CEO National Grid: baseload is outdated ​

4 https://www.caiso.com/Documents/FlexibleResourcesHelpRenewables_FastFacts.pdf ​

5 https://www.aemo.com.au/-​

/media/Files/Electricity/NEM/Security_and_Reliability/Future-Energy-Systems/2019/AEMO-​

RIS-International-Review-Oct-19.pdf"​

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

"Coal-hole" Mantashe clearly knows that the cadres can't make money by supplying sunlight, or making the wind blow.

They actually do provide a lot of wind...