South Africa tour of Australia, Oct - Nov 2016

[Neoprod]

You're assuming.
But lets consider when they are all fit. Who is the better bowler, Dale or Kyle, since I think its between them right?

You're also assuming fitness on Dale's part.

If everyone in the bowling unit is performing and we're bowling teams out, I wouldn't pick Dale. That's life.

 

[curbs2012]

You're also assuming fitness on Dale's part.

If everyone in the bowling unit is performing and we're bowling teams out, I wouldn't pick Dale. That's life.

I agree, right now I would not pick him ahead of any of the bowlers, but if he was fit, and playing well, I would pick him if one of the bowlers dipped in form. I would not discard him or write him off completely, which I think some people are doing.

With that being said....is Morkel all but done?

 

[Drifter]

Stats: Look away now all you Australian fans!

1st - time the Australians lost by an innings defeat at home to South Africa and their 20th overall.

111 - matches since the Proteas played a Test match without AB de Villiers and Dale Steyn in the same team, the last match occurred against India in Kolkata in November 2004.

3 - successive series win for South Africa in Australia following similar triumphs in 2008 and 2012.

5 - Test matches Australia have lost in a row after losing 3-0 in Sri Lanka and they are in danger of repeating that feat at home to South Africa.

246 - runs scored by Australia in this entire Test. It is their sixth lowest ever in home Tests.

193.5 - overs bowled in this Test, the fewest balls in a result game in Australia since 1950.

558 - balls the Australian batsmen faced for the entire Test.

15 - wickets fell in the first day's play - the most in a day's play in Hobart.

85 - is Australia's third-lowest total against South Africa in Tests after 47 in Cape Town in 2011 and 75 in Durban in 1950.

16 - Australians were dismissed in single figures during the Test. The only team before SA to dismiss 16 Australian batsman was England, at Oval in 1912 & 1896, & SCG in 1887-88.

5 - number of consecutive 50s scored by Quinton de Kock in his last five innings. Before Tuesday's 104 he scored 82, 50, 84 and 64.

39 - runs contributed by batsmen 5-11 across Australia's two innings in Hobart.

31/6 - Australia's second worst start in the first innings of a Test Match at home. In 1978 they lost 6 for 26 v England at Gabba.

32/8 - Australia's batting collapse on the morning of day four in Hobart.

9/118 - Man-of-the-match, Kyle Abbott's figures for the second Test. He took six for 77 in the second innings, which became the best performance in an innings for South Africa against Australia since Shaun Pollock's 7-87 in Adelaide in 1998.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Cricket/Proteas/stats-proteas-second-test-win-in-oz-20161115

 

[pinball wizard]

You're assuming.
But lets consider when they are all fit. Who is the better bowler, Dale or Kyle, since I think its between them right?

It's almost fact, not assumption, based on his recent history. That aside, I'd rather take someone in who I know can bowl 20 or more overs in an innings if they need to. There is too much of a question mark over Steyn for me to pick him if I was in that position.

 

[Drifter]

It's almost fact, not assumption, based on his recent history. That aside, I'd rather take someone in who I know can bowl 20 or more overs in an innings if they need to. There is too much of a question mark over Steyn for me to pick him if I was in that position.

I agree 100%. I honestly cant remember when last Steyn lasted for a whole innings, never mind a whole test match.

 

[Big Rat]

It's almost fact, not assumption, based on his recent history. That aside, I'd rather take someone in who I know can bowl 20 or more overs in an innings if they need to. There is too much of a question mark over Steyn for me to pick him if I was in that position.

When Steyn was bowling and fit in the One days he didn't do anything either. Most expensive, least wickets. I just do not see the hype in him. Speed in low 140s and even high 130.
When last did Steyn really set the world alight in a match? I do not recall. World cup last year, Everybody harped on that last game on the Abbot Philander thing, yet Philander looked better than Steyn. I recall he was pretty much our worst bowler at the world cup?

 

[Wall]

I agree 100%. I honestly cant remember when last Steyn lasted for a whole innings, never mind a whole test match.

As recently as our last test series in SA....
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/936127.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/936129.html


Can't believe you guys are writing off a ATG - His skill is still there, one can only hope that he gets his body right.

It would be an absolute shame if he gets the treatment you guys are advocating. I still firmly believe he has a lot to offer us in test cricket and I hope his body allows him to recover fully.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

When Steyn was bowling and fit in the One days he didn't do anything either. Most expensive, least wickets. I just do not see the hype in him. Speed in low 140s and even high 130.
When last did Steyn really set the world alight in a match? I do not recall. World cup last year, Everybody harped on that last game on the Abbot Philander thing, yet Philander looked better than Steyn. I recall he was pretty much our worst bowler at the world cup?

His body is failing him, it's not his fault at all. The guy has given a lot for the country and I can't believe some of the comments I'm reading here TBH.

If anything, I think the team management have failed him. By resting him for certain series, to make sure he is fit for tests, it has actually achieved the opposite. With little game time under his belt, this was bound to happen. It's the same reason why you don't jump straight into deadlifting 150kg after not gyming for 6 months...

 

[Neoprod]

As recently as our last test series in SA....
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/936127.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/936129.html


Can't believe you guys are writing off a ATG - His skill is still there, one can only hope that he gets his body right.

It would be an absolute shame if he gets the treatment you guys are advocating. I still firmly believe he has a lot to offer us in test cricket and I hope his body allows him to recover fully.

The only treatment I'm advocating is that he has to be doing better than the guy who gets dropped to replace him. That means he plays first class cricket and bowls to prove his fitness (not a couple of overs like he's done in tour matches).

And if Abbott \ Philander \ Rabada keep sharing five wickets hauls around and bowling teams out, then Dale shouldn't play.

 

[Wall]

His body is failing him, it's not his fault at all. The guy has given a lot for the country and I can't believe some of the comments I'm reading here TBH.

If anything, I think the team management have failed him. By resting him for certain series, to make sure he is fit for tests, it has actually achieved the opposite. With little game time under his belt, this was bound to happen. It's the same reason why you don't jump straight into deadlifting 150kg after not gyming for 6 months...

My sentiments echoed. The comments in here are literally unbelievable. This is the guy that who is arguably our greatest every exponent of fast bowling.

 

[Wall]

The only treatment I'm advocating is that he has to be doing better than the guy who gets dropped to replace him. That means he plays first class cricket and bowls to prove his fitness (not a couple of overs like he's done in tour matches).

And if Abbott \ Philander \ Rabada keep sharing five wickets hauls around and bowling teams out, then Dale shouldn't play.

so you saying a fully fit Dale Steyn should not be in the match 11?

 

[Neoprod]

so you saying a fully fit Dale Steyn should not be in the match 11?

After watching the bowling this morning, do any of the seamers deserve to be dropped? Does Dale offer anything we didn't see today or over the course of the 2 matches he's (mostly) missed?

I stand by my viewpoint - this morning was the best bowling I've seen in a unit. We didn't need Dale to do it...if we keep bowling like this, I wouldn't select him (that's my opinion as an armchair selector). If one of the bowlers loses form or picks up an injury and he's ready to go, then hell yes - call him up.

It's not the worst thing in the world for a 33 year old fast bowler to not be playing 15 days of 90 over cricket in a month. Alan Donald could have used a game or two off towards the end of his career instead of trying to be fit for every game.

 

[Wall]

After watching the bowling this morning, do any of the seamers deserve to be dropped? Does Dale offer anything we didn't see today or over the course of the 2 matches he's (mostly) missed?

I stand by my viewpoint - this morning was the best bowling I've seen in a unit. We didn't need Dale to do it...if we keep bowling like this, I wouldn't select him (that's my opinion as an armchair selector). If one of the bowlers loses form or picks up an injury and he's ready to go, then hell yes - call him up.

It's not the worst thing in the world for a 33 year old fast bowler to not be playing 15 days of 90 over cricket in a month. Alan Donald could have used a game or two off towards the end of his career instead of trying to be fit for every game.

Can't agree with that TBH. One good bowling performance doesn't not push other ahead of Steyn in the pecking order and righfully so. I wouldn't swop dale for Vernon or Abbot on a subcontinent pitch as an example.

Steyn has proven time and again that he is our best bowler and to not have him because our bowling unit looked good in one match is ridiculous.

 

[Neoprod]

Can't agree with that TBH. One good bowling performance doesn't not push other ahead of Steyn in the pecking order and righfully so. I wouldn't swop dale for Vernon or Abbot on a subcontinent pitch as an example.

Steyn has proven time and again that he is our best bowler and to not have him because our bowling unit looked good in one match is ridiculous.

We'll find out, I guess...he's off for 6 months and we've got 7 tests coming up till March next year (July brings 4 more against England - possibly he'd be in line for selection then). If the bowling unit performs over those 7 tests as it's been performing in the last 2 games without him, will you be feeling the same way?

 

[Drifter]

My sentiments echoed. The comments in here are literally unbelievable. This is the guy that who is arguably our greatest every exponent of fast bowling.

If he is fit AND on form, yes, by all means play him. But the way that the current bowlers are performing, he does not deserve a spot , as things stand now.

 

[SaiyanZ]

Apparently JP's first class batting average is somewhere around 60 if you exclude the 38 Test matches where he averages 33. Something happens to him when he plays for SA instead of locally.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

After watching the bowling this morning, do any of the seamers deserve to be dropped? Does Dale offer anything we didn't see today or over the course of the 2 matches he's (mostly) missed?

I stand by my viewpoint - this morning was the best bowling I've seen in a unit. We didn't need Dale to do it...if we keep bowling like this, I wouldn't select him (that's my opinion as an armchair selector). If one of the bowlers loses form or picks up an injury and he's ready to go, then hell yes - call him up.

It's not the worst thing in the world for a 33 year old fast bowler to not be playing 15 days of 90 over cricket in a month. Alan Donald could have used a game or two off towards the end of his career instead of trying to be fit for every game.

Conditions were suited to bowling though. For a match in India, would you leave Steyn out in favour of a unit that hasn't been proven there?

 

[WaxLyrical]

Why would anyone want Steyn in their line-up?

I agree.
I like Steyn and we quickly forget his heroics with the ball, but let's not talk about him for at least a year. He's currently damaged.

There's no point in that.

 

[Neoprod]

Conditions were suited to bowling though. For a match in India, would you leave Steyn out in favour of a unit that hasn't been proven there?

Moo point...we're not playing in India next year

Also the Indians produced sand pits the last time we were there so renders the Steyn factor irrelevant.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

Moo point...we're not playing in India next year

Also the Indians produced sand pits the last time we were there so renders the Steyn factor irrelevant.

It is the point actually. You have to look at where we're playing, and the conditions. Steyn doesn't need the pitch or overhead conditions to suit bowling, he's performed everywhere and his record reflects that. He didn't play in India last year, but he averages something like 20 there, so it's not irrelevant at all...