South African 2G network to shutdown

[cavedog]

Networks will NEVER switch off 2G.

First of all the R99 phone from pep is still a top seller and the Vodacom power hour bundle well as much as I hate it for R99 once off and R5 for power hour you can talk for 60min in a place that you can't even get Eskom electricity so yeah it's what is keeping it going. It's super cheap and super cheap on net minutes are not helping either.

Then you have a situation where competition is a problem. If Vodacom decides to switch off 2G MTN won't hesitate to take advantage of this to steal 2G customers and vice versa so the 2G switch off needs to come from ICASA as regulation and that will NEVER happen as their mandate is essentially push for affordable communication and switching off 2G does not help that cause.

Then you have the IoT and devices that are in use that uses 2G like these call the gate to open it that complex and estate body corporates installed. Why change it if it's working?

2G is here to stay for the long run. If anything 3G is the likely culprit to go first. That technology is basically just used for calls now for 4G devices that doesn't support VoLTE. If 3G goes no one will miss it as calls can fall back to 2G if they need to and the low frequency 2G bands have the advantage of very wide coverage (except for Telkom). Unfortunately the lowest band with Telkom is 1800MHz and that is why 2G on Telkom is basically useless with zero coverage. 2G on Telkom doesn't even extend beyond the 3G and 4G coverage.

 

[itareanlnotani]

Who cares about dinosaurs who refuse to switch from old outdated technologies. I suppose they're also still using some 80486's. Meanwhile the rest of the population is struggling with poor signal and high costs.

Its more about alarm systems and other embedded things that use 2G for sms comm's to do notifications.

To be honest, they'd be better off closing 3G and re-using those frequencies, as there are far too many 2G devices out there.

 

[Swa]

My Nokia 105 was launched Sep 2019:

Nokia 105 (2019) - Full phone specifications

www.gsmarena.com

Ok then

 

[Swa]

Its more about alarm systems and other embedded things that use 2G for sms comm's to do notifications.

To be honest, they'd be better off closing 3G and re-using those frequencies, as there are far too many 2G devices out there.

If AMD and Intel thought along the same lines we would never have gotten to where we are today. Somewhere along the line people have to get on with progress. Give them a date and they can't say they were just left out in the cold.

There's just not enough devices supporting 4G in order to switch off 3G.

 

[daffy]

2G networks were shut off in Australia in 2017.
They're planning on shutting down 3G networks in 2024.

 

[Johnatan56]

2G on Telkom doesn't even extend beyond the 3G and 4G coverage.

As you indirectly said, max range is a mostly a matter of spectrum and power, nothing you really do in this case.

And agree that 3G turn-off first is way more likely.

 

[itareanlnotani]

If AMD and Intel thought along the same lines we would never have gotten to where we are today. Somewhere along the line people have to get on with progress. Give them a date and they can't say they were just left out in the cold.

There's just not enough devices supporting 4G in order to switch off 3G.

I still think that 3G is far more likely to be turned off than 2G, due to the sheer number of legacy 2G devices.

3G on the other hand is an easier target for removal. 2G will be deprecated eventually, but it may take another decade.

 

[Pegging]

Businesses using POS machines using 2g will have a problem.

 

[Gravedigger]

Does GPRS fall under the 2G spectrum?

 

[cavedog]

Does GPRS fall under the 2G spectrum?

GPRS and EDGE

 

[JimM]

2G did carry data, EDGE was at the time reasonably fast (compared to dial up) in 2004.

2G handsets are still being made and there are a lot of other uses for 2G like security gates and telemetry units.

It is possible to reuse 900/1800MHz but reserve part of the band for legacy devices. 3G really sits out there as defunct with 4G and now 5G taking over and it might make sense to reuse 3G bands for high speed data.

Here in Stilbaai when the town gets thousands of extra devices on the system(s) over December, 2G is a real blessing for voice communications.

 

[Swa]

I still think that 3G is far more likely to be turned off than 2G, due to the sheer number of legacy 2G devices.

3G on the other hand is an easier target for removal. 2G will be deprecated eventually, but it may take another decade.

Thing is there's no replacement. There just isn't enough LTE devices so you're either going to have people on super fast connections or idle ones. 3G is a major fallback both for slow 2G connections and where LTE isn't an option. If you're talking 10 years from now when LTE has 100% penetration then yes, but you might as well announce then that 2G will be switched off so everyone can prepare.

What will eventually happen is networks will start allocating smaller and smaller spectrum chunks to 2G till everyone finds they have to upgrade. Thank God we didn't stick with 1G.

 

[Johnatan56]

If you're talking 10 years from now when LTE has 100% penetration then yes,

That's smartphone subs, LTE capable.
And rural population coverage per province in 2019:

SA’s smartphone penetration surpasses 90%

Latest figures from telecoms regulator ICASA show SA’s smartphone subscriptions at 53.4 million, putting smartphone penetration at 91.2% in 2019.

www.itweb.co.za

So would still say 2G + LTE would be best, switch off 3G first. Most of that LTE delay is just spectrum refarming, mobile providers shifting 3G to LTE as more get smartphones.

 

[Swa]

That's smartphone subs, LTE capable.
And rural population coverage per province in 2019:
View attachment 1060913

SA’s smartphone penetration surpasses 90%

Latest figures from telecoms regulator ICASA show SA’s smartphone subscriptions at 53.4 million, putting smartphone penetration at 91.2% in 2019.

www.itweb.co.za

So would still say 2G + LTE would be best, switch off 3G first. Most of that LTE delay is just spectrum refarming, mobile providers shifting 3G to LTE as more get smartphones.

Not sure that percentage is accurate. A lot of the population is still using 2G/3G only devices.

 

[Johnatan56]

Not sure that percentage is accurate. A lot of the population is still using 2G/3G only devices.

Not really, even the cheapest stuff have LTE support nowadays, e.g. the Nokia C2 is R130pm with R125 airtime: https://www.vodacom.co.za/shopping/deal-details-page/DV1DD05187?contractSkus=DV1DD05187 from Vodacom and supports LTE. (R90pm one here with uChoose R65, also Nokia C2)

The 3 cheapest smartphones on Edgars:

Cellphones - CELLULAR & ELECTRONICS

www.edgars.co.za

Are R750: https://www.edgars.co.za/mobicel-geo-5-45-lte-network-locked-cellphone
800: https://www.edgars.co.za/6009545306817-23495301
800: https://www.edgars.co.za/6941785716196-3647160701

All support LTE.

For feature phones, you can deliver 2G and it will be fine, so would expect 3G to be refarmed to LTE and you will see LTE hit coverage between 3G (min) and 2G (max) levels.
It's been a good 3 years since most of the entry level has been LTE, it started around 2017.

Remember, most phones are manufactured not just for South Africa, and a lot of worldwide networks are switching of 3G or have dates set for it, most manufacturers will move with the times.
Unless you're arguing against them switching off both? They definitely will not switch off 2G for quite a while imho, so many things outside of just feature phones, lots of trackers, IoT, etc.

 

[Swa]

Not really, even the cheapest stuff have LTE support nowadays, e.g. the Nokia C2 is R130pm with R125 airtime: https://www.vodacom.co.za/shopping/deal-details-page/DV1DD05187?contractSkus=DV1DD05187 from Vodacom and supports LTE. (R90pm one here with uChoose R65, also Nokia C2)

The 3 cheapest smartphones on Edgars:

Cellphones - CELLULAR & ELECTRONICS

www.edgars.co.za

Are R750: https://www.edgars.co.za/mobicel-geo-5-45-lte-network-locked-cellphone
800: https://www.edgars.co.za/6009545306817-23495301
800: https://www.edgars.co.za/6941785716196-3647160701

All support LTE.

For feature phones, you can deliver 2G and it will be fine, so would expect 3G to be refarmed to LTE and you will see LTE hit coverage between 3G (min) and 2G (max) levels.
It's been a good 3 years since most of the entry level has been LTE, it started around 2017.

Remember, most phones are manufactured not just for South Africa, and a lot of worldwide networks are switching of 3G or have dates set for it, most manufacturers will move with the times.
Unless you're arguing against them switching off both? They definitely will not switch off 2G for quite a while imho, so many things outside of just feature phones, lots of trackers, IoT, etc.

Well first off devices being sold now are not the same as those in circulation. There are still a bigger percentage of the population with 3G capable phones than there are with LTE.

As for switching off 3G first are you advocating that it's ok to stop support for 2G/3G only m2m and terminals before stopping support for 2G only? That makes no sense if it's the same argument used against switching off 2G.

Yes I know there are countries that are considering switching off 3G or have set a date for it. But the key is that a lot of countries have already switched off 2G so it's rather a continuation of that. I don't think their use of m2m and terminals are different to ours. The only thing that's different is that they actually set a firm date for it. If we set one now it will still be 5 years at least but then we must stop talking about it and actually do it.

 

[Johnatan56]

Well first off devices being sold now are not the same as those in circulation.

Yes, but I doubt that there are that many that will live past ~5 years (if you set e.g. 2023 as the cut-off date), and there will be 2G for them to fall back on.

There are still a bigger percentage of the population with 3G capable phones than there are with LTE.

There is still yet a bigger percentage that can use 2G, most that have a phone that needs 3G speeds will have a phone capable of LTE speeds.

As for switching off 3G first are you advocating that it's ok to stop support for 2G/3G only m2m and terminals before stopping support for 2G only? That makes no sense if it's the same argument used against switching off 2G.

What? I am arguing not to switch off 2G, only switch off 3G and let 2G keep running for now, those IoT devices will over time will hopefully be able to swap to NB-IoT (narrow band IoT) if RSA cellular providers offer it. I was just trying to make that clear, and yet you interpreted even that incorrectly.

But the key is that a lot of countries have already switched off 2G so it's rather a continuation of that.

Besides Switzerland, I don't think there is going to be a single country without 2G support in Europe till the end of 2025 at least, and I am expecting there to be a pushback for 2G switch-off then. At least one provider will offer it.
3G is a different story, lots of networks are already switching it off this year, and most will have switched it off by 2025.

USA (and Canada) is a little different, they have already launched NB-IoT in 2019, that's why they're already switching off 2G for most (I think it was Sprint who's last, will be end of this year, will see how that goes).

Mobile IoT Deployment Map

This map illustrates the Mobile IoT commercial launches to-date. For a summary list of launches, please visit Mobile IoT Commercial Launches. Select the country and scroll down for details. Find out more: For any enquiries, please email GSMA IoT Marketing. Last Edit: May 2023

www.gsma.com

So once RSA networks get LTE-M as well, they can set a date for 2G shut-off, which will probably be 3-5 years from that date.

This is 2G/3G phase-out dates: https://www.emnify.com/en/resources/global-2g-phase-out#Americas seems to be kept up to date.

 

[Swa]

Yes, but I doubt that there are that many that will live past ~5 years (if you set e.g. 2023 as the cut-off date), and there will be 2G for them to fall back on.

There is still yet a bigger percentage that can use 2G, most that have a phone that needs 3G speeds will have a phone capable of LTE speeds.

These two statements make no sense together. 2G as a fallback technology is obsolete. It is too congested to be usable. If you set a date it applies equally to getting rid of 2G devices than to 3G. There is a bigger percentage of 3G/4G capable devices on the market than 2G only. If you want a fallback technology it has to be usable. I don't know the number of times people have told me they can't get any throughput because they're on 2G.

Which brings us to this

Dumping of cheap 2G phones in South Africa a big problem – Vodacom

South Africa, together with many other developing nations, has become a dumping ground for devices which are cheaply manufactured overseas using obsolete 2G technology, according to Vodacom.

mybroadband.co.za

Why are devices the rest of the world don't want being dumped here? 2G only devices isn't helping the situation but exacerbating it.

What? I am arguing not to switch off 2G, only switch off 3G and let 2G keep running for now, those IoT devices will over time will hopefully be able to swap to NB-IoT (narrow band IoT) if RSA cellular providers offer it. I was just trying to make that clear, and yet you interpreted even that incorrectly.

No I did not misinterpret it. I was saying that the argument you're using for switching off 3G applies equally if not more to 2G but you're not applying it to that. Let me clarify again. There are far more 3G capable devices than 4G/LTE. Now you want to switch off support for these and have them fall back to 2G. Only that 2G is obsolete/redundant and literally unusable. It's not an exaggeration to say it's 10 years past it's usable sell by date.

I was at someone's house the other day and the power was off. The only connection available was 2G and I could not do anything through it at all. This is the experience you want everyone with 2G/3G only devices to have by switching off 3G. The only reason those few 2G only m2m devices and terminals can still operate is because of the large number of 3G capable ones. Now you want to end support for those newly acquired ones which would as a consequence make all non-LTE capable devices unable to function.

Besides Switzerland, I don't think there is going to be a single country without 2G support in Europe till the end of 2025 at least, and I am expecting there to be a pushback for 2G switch-off then. At least one provider will offer it.
3G is a different story, lots of networks are already switching it off this year, and most will have switched it off by 2025.

They've set a date, that's the point. A few countries are already without 2G and more will follow as a lot of networks have switched off 2G and more are setting dates with grace periods getting increasingly shorter. Yes there are networks switching off 3G as I said, but most of them have either switched off 2G already or are planning to do so in the next year or two before 3G. It isn't a matter of 3G being switched off before 2G in most cases. What's interesting is those switching off both simultaneously.

 

[Johnatan56]

These two statements make no sense together. 2G as a fallback technology is obsolete. It is too congested to be usable.

According to whom? You? Do remember, this would be the people who don't really use their phones for net as most would have upgraded their phone in the last few years which is generally LTE capable.

There is a bigger percentage of 3G/4G capable devices on the market than 2G only

Pretty much all 3G capable devices are also 2G capable...

Why are devices the rest of the world don't want being dumped here? 2G only devices isn't helping the situation but exacerbating it.

Not sure what point you're trying to make with this, completely irrelevant.

I was at someone's house the other day and the power was off. The only connection available was 2G and I could not do anything through it at all. This is the experience you want everyone with 2G/3G only devices to have by switching off 3G. The only reason those few 2G only m2m devices and terminals can still operate is because of the large number of 3G capable ones. Now you want to end support for those newly acquired ones which would as a consequence make all non-LTE capable devices unable to function.

Most of those 3G terminals/devices do not use a lot of bandwidth, it is people using phones etc. that are using most of the data. NB-IoT should sort those out, that's what it is for.
Your anecdote about power off, did you not have an LTE capable device? What were you using to connect to the net and why were you doing so? Upgrade your device, it's been 10 years since LTE came out for flagships, and more than 5/6 years since it's been a standard on mid-range, and 3 years since generally a standard on budget. A feature phone does not need a 3G connection.

They've set a date, that's the point. A few countries are already without 2G and more will follow as a lot of networks have switched off 2G and more are setting dates with grace periods getting increasingly shorter. Yes there are networks switching off 3G as I said, but most of them have either switched off 2G already or are planning to do so in the next year or two before 3G. It isn't a matter of 3G being switched off before 2G in most cases. What's interesting is those switching off both simultaneously.

In most of those cases, 3G was switched off quite a bit before 2G, and 2G only has an end-date because NB-IoT support is there. What I am saying is is that 3G can be switched off quicker than 2G as 3G capable devices usually have a shorter lifecycle, while 2G is usually IoT stuff that's been designed for 10 years+. Switching off 3G does not mean you have to switch off 2G at the same time, that's a fallacy and you're for some reason arguing so strongly for it.

My entire argument is that you can switch off 3G independently of 2G, and 2G is a more important use-case than 3G, you can already pretty much turn off 3G without too much of an issue as those people can still use 2G (albeit it will be slow). 2G will stay a while longer until NB-IoT comes through due to power usage of 3G/4G/5G vs 2G.

 

[Ockie]

Intelligence Brief: What does 2021 hold for network sunsets?

One of the most visible impacts of Covid-19 (coronavirus) has been the increased usage of digital technologies, making high-speed internet Read more...

www.mobileworldlive.com

Interesting read. Seems only Europe is focused mainly on switching 3G off. Rest of the world favours switching off 2G first.