South African Airways is an "unfixable mess"

eg2505

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ANC does not like/ want to accept failure. They'll rather drag this dead horse with them
look at Air Zimbabwe for inspiration.

only 1 aircraft as Mugabes Private plane.
 

eg2505

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There you go lol
but seriously though,

why cant Ethiopian airways or Kenya airways just decide to buy SAA?
or they form some kind of deal to at least keep it gong in the meantime?
 

LD50

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but seriously though,

why cant Ethiopian airways or Kenya airways just decide to buy SAA?
or they form some kind of deal to at least keep it gong in the meantime?
Too much debt coming with that transaction. Somebody will have to pay it.

It is so bad that SAA would actually save money if their planes stay grounded
 

Jola

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but seriously though,

why cant Ethiopian airways or Kenya airways just decide to buy SAA?
or they form some kind of deal to at least keep it gong in the meantime?
SAA isn't worth anything, it would be cheaper, and better, for them to expand naturally.

For starters, the union thing is a major negative wrt SAA.

So SAA just cannot be sold.

And the ANC doesn't have the political will to shut it down.

So, stalemate. And endless drain of funds.
 

Zukat

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Whats not taken into consideration is the geographical location for a national carrier to be profitable, just doesnt make sense to have one in South Africa.
 

clickingbuttons

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Whats not taken into consideration is the geographical location for a national carrier to be profitable, just doesnt make sense to have one in South Africa.
There is no sense to running SAA at the loss its running at. It only makes sense for the looters to keep it going, aka ANC connected elite
 

Emjay

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There is no way to fix it. The Government has to take it on the chin and pay the guarantees out. There is zero willingness to suffer the consequences, so they will keep passing this issue onto new people.

Smart for Vuyani to get out sooner rather than later to protect his reputation. He is going to have zero allies in the government after this though. They will see this as a massive betrayal.
 

Milano

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With privatised SAA, privatised Eskom, privatised SAPO, privatised every-other-SEO, how would the ANC guarantee itself of winning future elections? Throw another R55 billion at SAA. Cannot risk eating dry fillet and potatoes..
 

Emjay

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With privatised SAA, privatised Eskom, privatised SAPO, privatised every-other-SEO, how would the ANC guarantee itself of winning future elections? Throw another R55 billion at SAA. Cannot risk eating dry fillet and potatoes..
SAA cannot be privatized because it is worth nothing. Its liabilities exceed its assets, and it is running at a loss in a country with a sinking economy. There is zero value there. Not even a gamble on future potential earnings. On top of that, it cannot be optimised from a spending perspective. How many have tried? At one stage even Parliament was overseeing its activities to try stop the bleeding.
 

Milano

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SAA cannot be privatized because it is worth nothing. Its liabilities exceed its assets, and it is running at a loss in a country with a sinking economy. There is zero value there. Not even a gamble on future potential earnings. On top of that, it cannot be optimised from a spending perspective. How many have tried? At one stage even Parliament was overseeing its activities to try stop the bleeding.
So we are told. It certainly fits the ruling party's manifesto conveniently enough. If the billions spent as recently as last year and this year were spent with the correct vision / political ideology then who can say what is possible in terms of partnerships, privatisation, downsizing or closure.
 

Ockie

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Whats not taken into consideration is the geographical location for a national carrier to be profitable, just doesnt make sense to have one in South Africa.
Qantas and Air New Zealand doing OK.....and look where they are located.

A big problem for us is our fleet. They are no longer fit for purpose. You cannot fly a old A340 quad jet and try and compete with other airlines flying more modern and fuel efficient 777 or 787 or A350 twin jets and think you going to make a profit. The A330's in our fleet lessens this blow to a degree I am sure, but keeping the A340's in the air at the same time would negate those gains.

It is a difficult situation though. The fleet is a big part of the financial problem (but by no means the only one), but the airline does not have the money to buy new modern long haul twin jets either. Leasing would have to be the way to go, but it could take a very long time to get hold of them as I think these new models are booked out for years into the future.
 

Mystic Twilight

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Qantas and Air New Zealand doing OK.....and look where they are located.

A big problem for us is our fleet. They are no longer fit for purpose. You cannot fly a old A340 quad jet and try and compete with other airlines flying more modern and fuel efficient 777 or 787 or A350 twin jets and think you going to make a profit. The A330's in our fleet lessens this blow to a degree I am sure, but keeping the A340's in the air at the same time would negate those gains.

It is a difficult situation though. The fleet is a big part of the financial problem (but by no means the only one), but the airline does not have the money to buy new modern long haul twin jets either. Leasing would have to be the way to go, but it could take a very long time to get hold of them as I think these new models are booked out for years into the future.
They have a strong economy that fuels domestic demand and international travel. You can thank the dudu for trying to get a bonus on the previous aircraft lease/swap deal in delaying getting new planes.
 

ToxicBunny

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Qantas and Air New Zealand doing OK.....and look where they are located.

A big problem for us is our fleet. They are no longer fit for purpose. You cannot fly a old A340 quad jet and try and compete with other airlines flying more modern and fuel efficient 777 or 787 or A350 twin jets and think you going to make a profit. The A330's in our fleet lessens this blow to a degree I am sure, but keeping the A340's in the air at the same time would negate those gains.

It is a difficult situation though. The fleet is a big part of the financial problem (but by no means the only one), but the airline does not have the money to buy new modern long haul twin jets either. Leasing would have to be the way to go, but it could take a very long time to get hold of them as I think these new models are booked out for years into the future.
Just for reference... as far as I'm aware SAA have 2 A350-900's on order to be delivered at some point in the not too distant future.
 

Gaz{M}

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Another problem is that South Africa is at the arse end of the planet. It will never be a busy hub. So we fly unprofitable routes to connect to the globe. But I would argue that the fleet is a small part of the problem. 70% of the problem is corruption and waste.
 

Ockie

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Just for reference... as far as I'm aware SAA have 2 A350-900's on order to be delivered at some point in the not too distant future.
I think that might be just a rumour. Someone mentioned that before on mybb and I tried finding info on the net....but could not find any.
 

Ockie

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Another problem is that South Africa is at the arse end of the planet. It will never be a busy hub. So we fly unprofitable routes to connect to the globe. But I would argue that the fleet is a small part of the problem. 70% of the problem is corruption and waste.
We should do a hub somewhere in the middle of Africa. Then turn our home market into a spoke route. The way Africa protects and wraps its airspace up in red tape would make it very difficult to do that. Freedom rights would be very difficult to negotiate. Only other way is to create a seperate entity in selected African country....but with African corruption everywhere....don't think that would be easy either.
 

The_Librarian

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They wont do that either. Too fck scared of the unions.
I now tend to call this situation "Yes men" syndrome.

They should man up, tell the unions to go **** themselves, and shut it down totally.
 

ToxicBunny

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I think that might be just a rumour. Someone mentioned that before on mybb and I tried finding info on the net....but could not find any.
I think the official announcement is being kept VERY quiet... can you imagine the bedlam if it was officially announced.

I think its being engineered as a lease swap so only minor additional funding to the lease agreement with a decrease in opex on that specific plane so it should balance out.
 

Ockie

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I think the official announcement is being kept VERY quiet... can you imagine the bedlam if it was officially announced.

I think its being engineered as a lease swap so only minor additional funding to the lease agreement with a decrease in opex on that specific plane so it should balance out.
I would love to see a A350 in SAA colours though. I think it would look amazingly beautiful in our livery.
 
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