South African banks vs Bitcoin and Ethereum - Transfer times and fees

Jamie McKane

MyBroadband Journalist
Joined
Mar 2, 2016
Messages
7,000
Reaction score
1,006
South African banks vs Bitcoin and Ethereum - Transfer times and fees

We recently covered how bank transfers can take over a day for South African banks to process, and if you wanted the transaction to happen instantly you need to pay an additional fee.

International bank transfers are even worse, and sending money overseas can take several business days and cost several hundred rand - depending on how much you send.
 
You didn't factor in the ZAR cost for acquiring the bitcoin / eth on exchange (trading / conversion fee etc.)?

Article is kinda pointless without that comparison because it's a cost you're incurring that needs to be considered. That cost scales up with the amount of bitcoin you buy as it's a % of your ZAR whereas bank fees are often fixed amounts. Buying R100 000 worth of BTC on an exchange at a 5% fee might be more expensive than the fixed bank fee for sending R100 000.
 
I got 2 Dell computers with ETH I had.

It took 15 minutes for the ETH to get from an exchange (currency market) to the friend I purchased the Dells from. Compare that to the 3 days you sometimes have to wait for South African banks over weekends (cause apparently their computers need sleep or something on the weekend as well).

These days, I would prefer to be paid in cryptocurrency than normal FIAT. I feel more secure.
 
You didn't factor in the ZAR cost for acquiring the bitcoin / eth on exchange (trading / conversion fee etc.)?

Article is kinda pointless without that comparison because it's a cost you're incurring that needs to be considered. That cost scales up with the amount of bitcoin you buy as it's a % of your ZAR whereas bank fees are often fixed amounts. Buying R100 000 worth of BTC on an exchange at a 5% fee might be more expensive than the fixed bank fee for sending R100 000.

:eek::eek::eek:

Remember to pm™ when in doubt.
 
Whether you send one Bitcoin to a friend in South Africa or Switzerland makes no difference to how the transaction is processed – and the fees you pay.
And again there's a fee for your friend to convert the crypto to fiat on their local exchange...something else not factored in.
 
And again there's a fee for your friend to convert the crypto to fiat on their local exchange...something else not factored in.
Luno fees are very reasonable, When I cashed out 20k in ETH it charged me R12.

Also, people are starting to ask to be paid in crypto. Perhaps not yet in formal business, but its gaining traction, especially amongst freelancers that travel a lot. So while fiat conversion is still a thing, its more a legacy than the future.

Anyone who pays in bitcoin is foolish. Thats an EXPENSIVE transaction payment. Many crypto currencies like Litecoin and Bitcoin Cash work around these limitations.

DONT BUY WITH BITCOIN.

To me bitcoin is like gold in crypto currency. More a value holder than a form of currency. For something to be a form of currency to me, it has to be cheap and simple to use. Many other crypto coins fill this function.
 
Luno fees are very reasonable, When I cashed out 20k in ETH it charged me R12.
R12 to withdraw your ZAR or to convert from ETH to ZAR? Because if I send you exactly 20k worth of ETH right now I'm almost sure you'll lose more than R12 in your conversion from ETH to ZAR. Plus there's the cost of converting from fiat to ETH.
 
R12 to withdraw your ZAR or to convert from ETH to ZAR? Because if I send you exactly 20k worth of ETH right now I'm almost sure you'll lose more than R12 in your conversion from ETH to ZAR. Plus there's the cost of converting from fiat to ETH.
It might have been R20 ( I would need to log into my wallet to check, I just remember been happy at how low it was) . When you convert crypto from luno out it tells you how much it charges. How much are yours?

Most people wont buy crypto for a single small transactions. However, many people have large amounts of crypto (or buy in bulk) already they can use to purchase stuff with. If the buyer/seller are crypto ready then there is no exchange to fiat.
 
It took 15 minutes for the ETH to get from an exchange (currency market) to the friend I purchased the Dells from. Compare that to the 3 days you sometimes have to wait for South African banks over weekends (cause apparently their computers need sleep or something on the weekend as well).

If cryptos really took off and we all started using it it would mean that every transaction needs
to be verified before the network approved it. Considering not even 1% of the population is using it now,
scale that up to at least 5 billion people....Suddenly somebody buying bread at pick n pay gets
in the queue in SA, and someone buying flowers in Japan, etc.

If everybody started using it, it would take days before transactions are completed...its not scalable
 
If cryptos really took off and we all started using it it would mean that every transaction needs
to be verified before the network approved it. Considering not even 1% of the population is using it now,
scale that up to at least 5 billion people....Suddenly somebody buying bread at pick n pay gets
in the queue in SA, and someone buying flowers in Japan, etc.

If everybody started using it, it would take days before transactions are completed...its not scalable
I can tell you why crypto will beat bark money in one simple argument. Its very easy to buy fake fiat currencies in all major denominations. Its bark. Anyone with a printer can print their own money if they have a good enough printer.

Try buy fake and sell fake bitcoins. Unless you really stupid, you cant.

This highlights the difference between double entry accounting and triple entry accounting.

You carry on trusting your printed paper, Ill take a bet on the long game with crypto. Technically, its better.

Uptake is a matter of time. The last people in will be the worst off, so good luck.

Though saying that, trade responsibly, spread your risk, right now in the current atmosphere mixing up between fiat and crypto is healthy. Fiat still has a couple of decades left in I think (assuming the current world order doesnt collapse) .
 
Last edited:
If cryptos really took off and we all started using it it would mean that every transaction needs
to be verified before the network approved it. Considering not even 1% of the population is using it now,
scale that up to at least 5 billion people....Suddenly somebody buying bread at pick n pay gets
in the queue in SA, and someone buying flowers in Japan, etc.

If everybody started using it, it would take days before transactions are completed...its not scalable
The lightning network, and other layer two solutions solve all of that. Scaling issues are so 2017.
 
The lightning network, and other layer two solutions solve all of that. Scaling issues are so 2017.

Thats what they said about Bitcoins last fork...
 
Thats what they said about Bitcoins last fork...
There have been at least 30 forks, most recently Bitcoin Zero, but I assume you mean Bitcoin Cash? Bitcoin Cash wanted to solve the scaling problem by simply making bigger blocks but in the long run that will also only scale so much, and there was a lot of hype and FUD that they spread about Bitcoin "proper" which lead to a huge backlash against its founders.

But there is a new generation of "side chain" or "layer 2" solutions for Bitcoin, predominantly the Lightning Network, which has quietly been refined and developed over the last year or two and which is now starting to see rapid adoption. Basically, this involves establishing direct payment channels between nodes which essentially only touch the main blockchain in bulked up transactions, thus allowing virtually unlimited near-instant transactions at a minuscule cost. As the number of lightning nodes expands and the environment adapts to this with compatible wallets, etc, expect a resurgence in interest when it becomes apparent that it will actually be possible to handle millions of transactions per second globally for a few satoshis each.
 

Interesting didnt know that. But the part I dont get is that it doesnt really seem
like the technology was ever the problem.

According to this article VISA processes ~1700 transactions per second already.
100 times more than the prev prev version of Bitcoin then.
https://mybroadband.co.za/news/bank...-visa-and-paypal-transactions-per-second.html

The problem comes in with reporting to government banks.
Banks are required to report to the different regulatory bodies, if it couldve been automated
it really wouldve by now as SA banks are some of the most innovative in the world.
Why would Bitcoin perform better when ALL the functions are included?
To me it seems like were not really comparing apples with apples here.


The other part I dont get about cryptos...its great that they are all "transparent" and you can
see all the transactions...but why would somebody like [insert Rich guy's name] ever want that?
Why would billionaires want their bank account's EVERY move shown to the world?

Everyone seems to be very focused on the technological pros & cons of cryptos,
but no-one seems to have answers for all the logical issues that it has.
 
The problem comes in with reporting to government banks.
Banks are required to report to the different regulatory bodies, if it couldve been automated
it really wouldve by now as SA banks are some of the most innovative in the world.
Why would Bitcoin perform better when ALL the functions are included?
To me it seems like were not really comparing apples with apples here.
I'm not sure what you mean by this - reporting to regulatory bodies will never be a function built in to Bitcoin. It only becomes possible to implement some kind of compliance at the point of converting to/from fiat currency (or goods). That's not to say that there won't necessarily be businesses and individuals who will flout regulations (as there are with people who only deal in cash), just that it's got nothing to do with Bitcoin per se.

The other part I dont get about cryptos...its great that they are all "transparent" and you can
see all the transactions...but why would somebody like [insert Rich guy's name] ever want that?
Why would billionaires want their bank account's EVERY move shown to the world?
The transactions are transparent but the identity of the parties is not visible. Anyone can see what was paid to an address, but the address can be changed at will. So, yes, it is true that you can get an idea of who is behind a single transaction (after all you know that you paid Bob at a certain address, for eg), but it's much harder to see beyond that depending on how much effort the user puts into privacy (Bob might create a unique address for every transaction).

Everyone seems to be very focused on the technological pros & cons of cryptos,
but no-one seems to have answers for all the logical issues that it has.
I don't see any logical issues, unless you're a bank or a government. It's no different from hard cash, other than it can be handled remotely. As with hard cash, if I pay Bob R1000 in cash, there is no record (apart from if he chooses to write up an invoice) and the actual transaction involves no middle man. It is equally irreversible - if I give the wrong guy R1000 and he walks off with my money, that's that (generally).
 
To reply to the different threads :)

I'm not sure what you mean by this - reporting to regulatory bodies will never be a function built in to Bitcoin. It only becomes possible to implement some kind of compliance at the point of converting to/from fiat currency (or goods). That's not to say that there won't necessarily be businesses and individuals who will flout regulations (as there are with people who only deal in cash), just that it's got nothing to do with Bitcoin per se.

Our law states that we are allowed to move R 1m in a discretionary allowance to foreign markets,
but we have to report every year how much we move across. This is done daily by the banks on our behalf.
If we are to replace fiat, then this function needs to be taken over by the bitcoin exchanges.
They must also prevent people from moving money across if they've exceeded the thresholds.
(as 1 example). This is law for SA so it has to be implemented for bitcoin to be legalized.

The transactions are transparent but the identity of the parties is not visible. Anyone can see what was paid to an address, but the address can be changed at will. So, yes, it is true that you can get an idea of who is behind a single transaction (after all you know that you paid Bob at a certain address, for eg), but it's much harder to see beyond that depending on how much effort the user puts into privacy (Bob might create a unique address for every transaction).
Didnt know that but practically how does that work?
Will Bill Gates change his address on a weekly basis?
Also how does the audit trail hold up then? I thought thats the main feature of blockchain
is that you always have to follow the thread?
If a person can do this without an audit trail is blockchain really transparent or did I misunderstand you?

I don't see any logical issues, unless you're a bank or a government. It's no different from hard cash, other than it can be handled remotely. As with hard cash, if I pay Bob R1000 in cash, there is no record (apart from if he chooses to write up an invoice) and the actual transaction involves no middle man. It is equally irreversible - if I give the wrong guy R1000 and he walks off with my money, that's that (generally).

Some of the Logical issues involve
- scaling to the whole world so that it becomes a transactional currency (youve touched on this with the new network)
- changing the psychology of Bitcoin holders to go from HODL to transaction use
(we all still know the story of the 10,000 bitcoin pizza guy...why use it for transactions then)
- If you accidentally send money to the wrong account, getting it back. (Fraud and Incorrect payments)
- Continuity - If a person dies, how can an estate move the money the next of kin
(we've seen a couple of Bitcoin people not write their passwords down, die and nobody could get their millions)
Heres one: https://www.wired.com/story/crypto-exchange-ceo-dies-holding-only-key/
- Continuity - what happens if enough people died with their passwords over time?
Basically the price will just skyrocket causing uncontrolled inflation
as supply diminishes as you cant make more bitcoin
- Security - you can actually change the chain if you are the majority miner...
- And finally the perception that Bitcoin is unsafe
https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbes...why-are-crypto-exchanges-are-hacked-so-often/

And finally I forgot to add...hypothetically I'm now a crypto convert.
Which one do I get... Bitcoin? or Bitcoin cash, or ripple.
Overnight anyone of these can disappear as they are not backed by anything
and be replaced by a different one.
There are currently over 1500 different coins....You have more chance predicting holding the right penny
stocks than you do the right crypto coin.

So far with all of these banks still outperform
 
Last edited:
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter