South African BBM cybercrime policies may follow UK, Saudi Arabia

BeVonk!

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In the end we will all be forced to choose sides in a global game of Cowboys & Crooks ... with no "on the fence" choices like Travelling Salesman or Barman available ... a binary world we here know so well ... :D
 

SUPERMAN89

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I'd say no! Bbm is not the only I.M, there's a lot out there...there begins control over the internet? People will find a way to get the message though
 

Nerfherder

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I'd say no! Bbm is not the only I.M, there's a lot out there...there begins control over the internet? People will find a way to get the message though

BBM is the only encrypted service... so not really worth mentioning any other "services" in the context of this thread. Twitter/FB data etc is all already available to them
 

BeVonk!

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OK so what happens when the criminals the switch to using code speak?

They use code speak anyway. Only the really stupid ones don't.

I'm sure it is possible to develop an Android encrypted messaging service anyway (not distributed through any market but directly issued to whoever needs it).
 

noxibox

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What about our constitutional rights to privacy. Seems all the important bits in our constitution is slowly being eroded.
If you read our constitution you'll see it has deliberately not been made absolute. Our constitution is actually quite weak in my opinion.

What is getting to me is that the increase in "crime", "riots" and "terrorism" is limiting our freedoms and making our lives more and more uncomfortable. I can't even get on a plane with my Swiss pocket-knife any more. Our homes must have frustrating security systems in place to keep unwanted visitors out. Our kids can't play in the streets any more (like many of us were used to) ... and they can't walk to school (like many of us did). The criminal has so many rights now that my home is becoming a jail and my neighbourhood a military zone. And now Governments are using all this to limit our freedoms from the other side ... so we are in a vice-grip with pressure coming from two sides to crush us. In the end we in the middle will break and it will be war between Governments and Criminals with nothing left in-between.
Crime, riots, terrorism are merely excuses. The UK government for example loves to spy on and control it's citizens. These recent riots are merely an excuse to extend it to new areas. Current requirements for air travel have been very aptly named security theatre.

Whether children can walk to school and play in the street depends where you live. They can and do in the places where I've lived over the last 15 years. What we have seen is an increase in unfounded parental paranoia.

They certainly seem to have gone too far in the other direction with regard to rights, although as the police the world over prove again and again they need to be very closely monitored and strictly controlled. But those rights whether or not they are too much are not likely to be much a factor in crime rates.
 

BeVonk!

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So, to sidestep Gov one must use a non-encrypted BBM service on BB so that when Gov decrypts it they get garbage ... :D
 

Elimentals

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They use code speak anyway. Only the really stupid ones don't.

I'm sure it is possible to develop an Android encrypted messaging service anyway (not distributed through any market but directly issued to whoever needs it).

No need, just use a VPN. Then again with all the other VoIP and text services on the other 2 OS's the Police will need a whole new budget to deal with them all.
 

BeVonk!

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Elimentals, the US & Allied Cyberwarriors place a lot of focus on VPN's. I'm sure all the commercially available VPN's are already wide open to these guys.

As long as the word "virtual" is in there somewhere it is not safe enough imo.
 

Elimentals

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Elimentals, the US & Allied Cyberwarriors place a lot of focus on VPN's. I'm sure all the commercially available VPN's are already wide open to these guys.

Android = Linux = Open Source = I say good luck with that :)

It will be cheaper to erm fight crime :)
 

crackersa

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If you read our constitution you'll see it has deliberately not been made absolute. Our constitution is actually quite weak in my opinion.


Crime, riots, terrorism are merely excuses. The UK government for example loves to spy on and control it's citizens. These recent riots are merely an excuse to extend it to new areas. Current requirements for air travel have been very aptly named security theatre.

Whether children can walk to school and play in the street depends where you live. They can and do in the places where I've lived over the last 15 years. What we have seen is an increase in unfounded parental paranoia.

They certainly seem to have gone too far in the other direction with regard to rights, although as the police the world over prove again and again they need to be very closely monitored and strictly controlled. But those rights whether or not they are too much are not likely to be much a factor in crime rates.

and so you move to an area where you can be safe and the childern can play in the streets, before it's just a matter of time before the crime starts there? remember, criminals go where the money is and it's the easiest to hit.
 

Lycanthrope

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14. Privacy

Everyone has the right to privacy, which includes the right not to have *

their person or home searched;
their property searched;
their possessions seized; or
the privacy of their communications infringed.

Anyone feel like rewriting the constitution? If not, this little bit of insanity will never get through constitutional court and, frankly, I don't see how it would ever be justifiable without reasonable suspicion to commit a crime.
 

devilfp

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At least there is still a market for BlackBerry's ... anarchist segment of the mobile industry. :D

+1000 :D

So when my Backberry get stolen you will be able to catch and arrest that criminal as well ?

If not then STFU...

Their response would be something like: "It will not be in our interest to invade his\her privacy, only yours"
 

Garson007

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Anyone feel like rewriting the constitution? If not, this little bit of insanity will never get through constitutional court and, frankly, I don't see how it would ever be justifiable without reasonable suspicion to commit a crime.
They can with a court order already do all of those. They will still need one after this. Sometimes I wonder if people read more than headlines.
 

Lycanthrope

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They can with a court order already do all of those. They will still need one after this. Sometimes I wonder if people read more than headlines.

And sometimes I wonder if certain people have realised that RICA is already in place and that this would be nothing more than a redundant policy, unless they trample over constitutional rights to privacy.

I'm curious how they would effect such a policy, or even how they would justify it beyond the already established legal frameworks. From my point of view, they would need a reasonable suspicion of intent to commit a crime or of an individual already having perpetrated a crime to even get as far as to using texts, e-mails, documents, data, etc as evidence. This is already all factored into RICA (at least that was my understanding of what RICA was meant for--interception of communications and what have you).

The only way this policy could be different and not a blatant redundancy to seem as though the ministry is doing something constructive with taxpayers' money is, as I said, if they trample over constitutional rights to privacy by monitoring BBM correspondence to pre-empt crimes during times of heightened tensions. Which is why, you'll have to excuse me, I take any minister saying. "We will not be spying on you, please" with a truckload of salt.

Or hey, perhaps they don't understand their own policies either, so how should any of us?

Feel free to explain their intentions to me if they're hardly clear to begin with, perhaps you have differing expectations to me.
 

Garson007

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My understanding is that even with RICA they cannot decrypt messages, but only interpret the raw data. Whereas decryption requires "editing" the source data.

That or RICA doesn't include IMs, but only calls and SMSes.
 

Lycanthrope

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My understanding is that even with RICA they cannot decrypt messages, but only interpret the raw data. Whereas decryption requires "editing" the source data.

I'm sorry, I'm falling asleep right now (haven't been sleeping well in a while) but what's the point of any of this rubbish (RICA) if they can't decrypt messages/communications/whatever and/or have no power to convince companies to hand over said data? Also, how do they intend to get their hands on BBM messages? Are they stored on the RIM network? Are they (DoC) going to be logging raw, intercepted, data continuously until it is necessary for it to be decrypted? Can RIM/Blackberry not just give them the decryption algorithm or whatever is required?

*sigh* I really just don't understand.

It seems futile (a bunch of toothless policies with a loud bark) regardless of how you approach it.
 

Lounger

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Who will watch them to make sure it's not abused for all kinds of other reasons, incl. spying re tenders?
The DA is using Blackberry. I wonder if they are worried?

Anyone know what encrytion is utilized and why the NSA can't decrypt it?
 
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