South African Covid-19 News and Discussions 3

R13...

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What is also terrible about the information fed to all of us is the incorrect use of the word/s "dose/s".
To most of the public " dose" means one injection. So a delivery of 80 000 "doses" as reported implies 80 000 jabs.
But, what was delivered is 80 000 ampoules. Each ampoule is equivalent to more than one jab.
Seems it is 80k doses
Instead, an ampule refers to a single dose of medication pre-packaged in an injectable glass or plastic container
 

MiW

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Does this news mean the J&J vaccine is useless?
Importantly, three clinical trials performed in South Africa during the second, 501Y.V2 infection wave reported dramatic decreases in vaccine efficacy. The Novavax NVX-CoV2373 subunit vaccine demonstrated a decrease in efficacy from 89.3% to 49.4% (https://ir.novavax.com/news-release...-vaccine-demonstrates-893-efficacy-uk-phase-3). This trial also detected SARS-CoV-2 seroprevalence, and in the placebo arm there was no difference in infection frequency between participants who were seropositive for SARS-CoV-2 relative to those who were negative, indicating that previous infection with first wave, non-501Y.V2 virus does not protect against re-infection with 501Y.V2. The Johnson and Johnson adenovirus vectored single dose vaccine showed a reduced efficacy from 72% in the US to 57% in South Africa. (https://www.jnj.com/johnson-johnson...nterim-analysis-of-its-phase-3-ensemble-trial). Most strikingly, the AstraZeneca ChAdOx1 AZD1222 chimpanzee adenoviral vectored vaccine showed only 10% efficacy against 501Y.V2 variants, compared to 75% efficacy against earlier variants circulating in South Africa [22]. The roll-out of this vaccine in South Africa is currently paused.
 

neoprema

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Importantly, three clinical trials performed in South Africa during the second, 501Y.V2 infection wave reported dramatic decreases in vaccine efficacy. The Novavax NVX-CoV2373 subunit vaccine demonstrated a decrease in efficacy from 89.3% to 49.4% (https://ir.novavax.com/news-release...-vaccine-demonstrates-893-efficacy-uk-phase-3). This trial also detected SARS-CoV-2 seroprevalence, and in the placebo arm there was no difference in infection frequency between participants who were seropositive for SARS-CoV-2 relative to those who were negative, indicating that previous infection with first wave, non-501Y.V2 virus does not protect against re-infection with 501Y.V2. The Johnson and Johnson adenovirus vectored single dose vaccine showed a reduced efficacy from 72% in the US to 57% in South Africa. (https://www.jnj.com/johnson-johnson...nterim-analysis-of-its-phase-3-ensemble-trial). Most strikingly, the AstraZeneca ChAdOx1 AZD1222 chimpanzee adenoviral vectored vaccine showed only 10% efficacy against 501Y.V2 variants, compared to 75% efficacy against earlier variants circulating in South Africa [22]. The roll-out of this vaccine in South Africa is currently paused.
The question is, what rate of efficacy takes COVID-19 from possible hopsitalization and/or death to just a flu? If its a relative low number then we should just continue even with the vaccines claiming low efficacy?
 

MiW

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The question is, what rate of efficacy takes COVID-19 from possible hopsitalization and/or death to just a flu? If its a relative low number then we should just continue even with the vaccines claiming low efficacy?
That was mentioned in the vaccine trials data
 

Paulsie

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The question is, what rate of efficacy takes COVID-19 from possible hopsitalization and/or death to just a flu? If its a relative low number then we should just continue even with the vaccines claiming low efficacy?
Whats the immune system "efficacy" against 501Y.V2 again?
 

Geoff.D

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Pfizer has 5 doses in a flask , and with special syringe you can take out sixth , but I've never seen info about the J&J ?
Neither have I. There was a cryptic reference to the number of doses per ampoule make by Helen Rees in an interview about how the roll out was going on TV. The comment was in reference to the wastage going on at the end of each day, when all the scheduled health workers have receiver their jabs and what can be done with what is left in each ampoule, which then gets discarded as it cannot be returned to storage. I think it is the same for all vaccines, 5 dose plus a 6th.
 
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Paulsie

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how do you calculate that, does a lung, kidney , brain etc. damage fits in ?
let's compare apples with apples. Just like vaccines - death, severe symptoms, mild + asymptomatic. Why should it be any different
 

StrontiumDog

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Wits with Prof. Shabir Mahdi as host, had Dr Patrick Soon-Shiong talk in a Zoom session tonight to talk about ImmunityBio's approach with their vaccines in the works. It was really interesting and a lot of it beyond me with only one viewing of the session.

This link here doesn't go into as much detail as he actually did tonight, but it should give some idea of what they are busy doing.
 

Supervan II

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What is also terrible about the information fed to all of us is the incorrect use of the word/s "dose/s".
To most of the public " dose" means one injection. So a delivery of 80 000 "doses" as reported implies 80 000 jabs.
But, what was delivered is 80 000 ampoules. Each ampoule vials is equivalent to more than one jab.
FTFY.

FTR for those who might be interested:
Ampoule = single dose/single use = sealed glass = once opened, cannot be resealed = contains liquids only
Vial = multiple dose/multiple use = rubber bung with aluminium seal = rubber bung is self-sealing and can be reused = can contain either powders or liquids
 

Geoff.D

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FTFY.

FTR for those who might be interested:
Ampoule = single dose/single use = sealed glass = once opened, cannot be resealed = contains liquids only
Vial = multiple dose/multiple use = rubber bung with aluminium seal = rubber bung is self-sealing and can be reused = can contain either powders or liquids
Thanks for the correction. It highlights the confusion, based on different reports and different statements made by those who should know better.
We still don't know for sure what was delivered, vials with multiple doses or ampoules with one dose. All of these terms have been used in media reports interchangeably, sometimes even in the same report.
The evidence suggests that vials were delivered. So how many vials were delivered?
If the standard unit is a vial, so were 80 000 vials delivered or not?
There must be someone who knows
My comment and post was absolutely deliberate with the single purpose of highlighting the confusion.
 

MiW

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Fulcrum29

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Going through the news...


J&J vaccine being administered is not formally registered with health products authority​


Deputy health minister Joe Phaahla on Friday told parliament the Johnson & Johnson (J&J) vaccine being administered was not formally registered with the SA Health Products Regulatory Authority (Sahpra).

Phaahla also revealed the vaccines being used in the current rollout programme were part of a batch J&J was using to conduct their worldwide human “expanded study.”

“It is legally regarded as an expanded study because as we are rolling out, the vaccine is not registered. The documentation for the application for registration of the vaccine has been submitted to Sahpra and documentation has also been submitted to other authorities.”

Phaahla and his director-general Sandile Buthelezi were updating parliament on the countrywide rollout of Covid-19 vaccines.

Explaining the vaccine procurement process, Phaahla said the government had engaged with manufacturers including those making Pfizer, Moderna and AstraZeneca vaccines, for some time.

“In the middle of that, as we were negotiating with the manufacturers, we concluded an agreement with AstraZeneca which had delegated the Serum Institute of India as its production company. We were directed by AstraZeneca to conclude negotiations with the institute. We then purchased one million doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine.

“That product was delivered to SA and unfortunately a few days after the vaccine was delivered, the results of the trials in SA came out.

“It showed that, specifically when tested against the 501Y.V2 variant which is prominent in our country, it was found to be not very effective at 22% and that is where the problem came.”

As a result, the government had to look at what else was available for SA.

“The only other vaccine which was tested in terms of phase three in South Africa and had shown to also be effective against the 501Y.V2 variant was the J&J vaccine.”

The government then immediately entered into discussions with J&J.

“We asked if they had any stock of this vaccine which had shown to be effective, including against the 501Y.V2 variant. J&J indicated that as part of their studies, there was very limited stock remaining which they used for the human trials in SA.”

J&J also indicated they had more stock in other countries around the world where most of the trials were being done.

“They said they would be able to bring in their stock to be used in SA while we are waiting for full registration of the J&J vaccine and while we were waiting for the orders being made. The only other order which was concluded was for the AstraZeneca vaccine.”

Phaahla said the agreement with J&J was that the doses remaining around the world, as part of their trial, would be collected, labelled and brought to SA.

“This was so we could use them in the meantime while we wait for further orders of registered vaccines.”

This, said Phaahla, should clear all confusion over whether this was a vaccination rollout programme or a trial programme.

“In essence, technically and legally, this is expanded research in terms of human trial because of the fact that the doses we are using are the remaining doses from human trial all over the world. Those are the doses we are utilising.

“We wanted to start the rollout of the programme but J&J had not yet acquired registration with the regulatory authorities, including Sahpra. It had just concluded its studies which had shown its vaccine is effective.”

J&J was in the process of submitting documentation to health authorities around the world, said Phaahla.

Yada yada...

I am sure that there was a scope, and that J&J schat themselves when this happened,

800.jpeg
 

Paulsie

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Going through the news...




Yada yada...

I am sure that there was a scope, and that J&J schat themselves when this happened,

800.jpeg
In essence, technically and legally, this is expanded research in terms of human trial
I don't care what people say about the effectiveness, safety and need regarding these vaccines.

Never before have people been called on to take part in human medical trials under the name of vaccine roll-outs as that's exactly what they are - medical trials in progress and people have no clue. The fact that the deputy health has to clarify this in the news confirms exactly that.

Imagine if there was a serious side effect that only came to be known in months to come. The world's governments would end up with severe egg on their faces indeed.
 

MiW

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I don't care what people say about the effectiveness, safety and need regarding these vaccines.

Never before have people been called on to take part in human medical trials under the name of vaccine roll-outs as that's exactly what they are - medical trials in progress and people have no clue. The fact that the deputy health has to clarify this in the news confirms exactly that.

Imagine if there was a serious side effect that only came to be known in months to come. The world's governments would end up with severe egg on their faces indeed.
How do you think they test next years flu vaccines?
 

Paulsie

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How do you think they test next years flu vaccines?
And that would make it OK I guess??? It's just that there have been so many "alternative" treatments suggested over the past year, but they were all blocked or disregarded as they we not 1/been scientifically tested long enough for potential side effects and 2/not been registered so we're not able to be used or prescribed.
Double standards perhaps?

And what you say is like condoning unlicensed drivers (ie "do you know how many unlicensed drivers there are??). They can probably all drive, but are still unlicensed.
 
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MiW

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And that would make it OK I guess??? It's just that there have been so many "alternative" treatments suggested over the past year, but they were all blocked or disregarded as they we not 1/been scientifically tested long enough for potential side effects and 2/not been registered so we're not able to be used or prescribed.
Double standards perhaps?

And what you say is like condoning unlicensed drivers (ie "do you know how many unlicensed drivers there are??). They can probably all drive, but are still unlicensed.
No , what I am saying is that I personally have problems with the flu vaccine, but not with the covid ones, which are being tested more than any other vaccine on earth.
 
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