South African Covid-19 News and Discussions 3

Geoff.D

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
23,773
I've said from the start. I'm no doctor. No scientist. Let alone an epidemiologist.
Had a measles and polio shot as a baby. ~40 years later still no measles or polio. Show me a Covid vaccine, and I'll show my arm. As long as it comes from a medical professional.
I'll leave it to the tinfoil hats to each do an exhaustive personal "study" and vomit their opinions all over the web.
If people want perfection, they should watch Bones in Star Trek. We're not there quite yet. Closest is House MD, but his rates are ridiculous.
1. Your example is an excellent one. Those vaccines that we all did not bat an eyelid at that most of our kids got were extensively tested before they were used. These vaccines have been rushed through the system at breakneck speed, plenty of shortcuts taken with many outstanding questions.
2. Hence why there are now all sorts of issues with the vaccines popping up. WE are all part of a massive trial at this stage. We must accept that issues will be found and address them. None of this is expressing anti-vax sentiments just part of the process, which we all hope are being taken note of by the manufacturers.
3.the information should be moderating who gets the vaccines and change who is automatically selected for receiving the vaccines, OR, measure put in place to address the issues popping up. It does NOT mean the vax program should be stopped and it does not mean that people who raise questions should be labelled as anti-vax.
4. There are many older people in the country, the parents of all of you lot who DID NOT get some of the vaccines you so glibly talk about that you got! I never ever received the vaccines for chickenpox, measels, and a few more simply because they did not exist when we were kids -- we got those ailments the old fashioned way. Hence there is a natural resistance but into a large chunk of the population.
5. There is absolutely nothing wrong with each and every person choosing to be concerned and cautious. Our government has not been heaped itself in glory in this process at all. And it has screwed up the vax program plenty of times.
6. these are NOT opinions being "vomited up on an open forum" - these are 100% valid concerns that we want to know if our ringmaster and his clowns are even looking at!

Just look at the latest debacle with purchasing the WRONG syringes! -- That is an absolute indictment against the health department! It is a disgrace to hear that 1 does out of 6 is wasted just because our lot did not bother to CHECK before placing the order!
To show the seriousness of this "error". It means throwing away 166 667 does out of every 1 million purchased! Just how fast do you think any costs savings on another purchasing fiasco by the health department is used up like this?

Why should anyone have Any faith in this useless lot? what else have they failed to check?? and evaluate?
 

Markd

Expert Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
1,348
SA and UK infection rates seem to be in the same ballpark at the moment.
The difference a vaccinated population makes....
SA:
#COVID19 UPDATE: A total of 55,593 tests were conducted in the last 24 hrs, with 13,155 new cases, which represents a 23.7% positivity rate. A further 112 #COVID19 related deaths have been reported, bringing total fatalities to 58,702 to date. Read more:

UK:
Another 9,284 coronavirus cases and six more deaths have been reported in the UK, according to official daily figures.
It compares with 10,321 cases and 14 deaths yesterday, and 7,490 cases and eight deaths this time last week.

so basically in a population where 89% of adults have had at least their first dose of vaccine, there were 6 deaths from COVID.

Here in SA where around 3.5% of the adult population have had their first dose, there were 112 deaths.

Its interesting to look at the graphs for the UK because you can see that the number of deaths being experienced no longer correlates or follows the number of infections, which is quite encouraging to me.
 

krycor

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
18,428
So what’s fascinating to me is the comment made by the guy in gov council (can’t recall what interview this was in) that thus far.. the dominant variant in SA remains our variant.

Now considering that Sa and the Indian variations (I know beta? And delta) have the a common modifications to allow greater transmissibility you can see why It’s not exactly taking over. So this is a good test case for AZ in the UK(those okes that say we shoulda used it), Pfizer in the US(though US does have hesitancy %) and Russia with Sputnik. These countries took a hash block with SA but seems like they acted a bit late with Indian one..

Anyway getting back to Sa.. it seems this wave is a complacency one and Gauteng getting hit hard this go round as it got out of the last one with a mild impact(relative to population size).
 

krycor

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
18,428
1. Your example is an excellent one. Those vaccines that we all did not bat an eyelid at that most of our kids got were extensively tested before they were used. These vaccines have been rushed through the system at breakneck speed, plenty of shortcuts taken with many outstanding questions.
2. Hence why there are now all sorts of issues with the vaccines popping up. WE are all part of a massive trial at this stage. We must accept that issues will be found and address them. None of this is expressing anti-vax sentiments just part of the process, which we all hope are being taken note of by the manufacturers.
3.the information should be moderating who gets the vaccines and change who is automatically selected for receiving the vaccines, OR, measure put in place to address the issues popping up. It does NOT mean the vax program should be stopped and it does not mean that people who raise questions should be labelled as anti-vax.
4. There are many older people in the country, the parents of all of you lot who DID NOT get some of the vaccines you so glibly talk about that you got! I never ever received the vaccines for chickenpox, measels, and a few more simply because they did not exist when we were kids -- we got those ailments the old fashioned way. Hence there is a natural resistance but into a large chunk of the population.
5. There is absolutely nothing wrong with each and every person choosing to be concerned and cautious. Our government has not been heaped itself in glory in this process at all. And it has screwed up the vax program plenty of times.
6. these are NOT opinions being "vomited up on an open forum" - these are 100% valid concerns that we want to know if our ringmaster and his clowns are even looking at!

Just look at the latest debacle with purchasing the WRONG syringes! -- That is an absolute indictment against the health department! It is a disgrace to hear that 1 does out of 6 is wasted just because our lot did not bother to CHECK before placing the order!
To show the seriousness of this "error". It means throwing away 166 667 does out of every 1 million purchased! Just how fast do you think any costs savings on another purchasing fiasco by the health department is used up like this?

Why should anyone have Any faith in this useless lot? what else have they failed to check?? and evaluate?


Uh the most advanced nations could not get that right (go look at the UK with Pfizer and why they preferred AZ) with the right syringes, they also had cold chain problems.. thinking that given that scenario we gonna magically make it work here without issues is what I find hilarious.

This is South Africa, we a 3rd world / developing nation with the appropriate budget & skill limits.. failure you understand that makes me think people who demand things that don’t work elsewhere yet are professors are fundamentally stupid when it comes to real life complications.. which isn’t exactly a new phenomenon either. It’s a common thing you see play out over and over.

Anyway.. I’m not too pissed with it all.. just wondering if someone was bright enough to factor it into costing. The J&J stuff is finally coming through now and with the hesitancy of people I’m thinking mid July they should drop the age bracket by 5yrs..

Why 5yrs? It will cause the fence sitters to panic and get vaccinated while also not expanding the demand by too much.
 
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JohnStarr

Executive Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
7,603
I'll say I know a lot more people either being forced to isolate during this particular wave (due to idiots sending infected kids to school or just acting like idiots and coming to work sick), or actually picking this virus up.
 

Paulsie

Expert Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2020
Messages
2,566
Just look at the latest debacle with purchasing the WRONG syringes! -- That is an absolute indictment against the health department! It is a disgrace to hear that 1 does out of 6 is wasted just because our lot did not bother to CHECK before placing the order!
To show the seriousness of this "error". It means throwing away 166 667 does out of every 1 million purchased! Just how fast do you think any costs savings on another purchasing fiasco by the health department is used up like this?

Why should anyone have Any faith in this useless lot? what else have they failed to check?? and evaluate?
The government has more important things to worry about - like coming up with a new name for PE.
 

The Darkness

Expert Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
1,379
1. Your example is an excellent one. Those vaccines that we all did not bat an eyelid at that most of our kids got were extensively tested before they were used. These vaccines have been rushed through the system at breakneck speed, plenty of shortcuts taken with many outstanding questions.
2. Hence why there are now all sorts of issues with the vaccines popping up. WE are all part of a massive trial at this stage. We must accept that issues will be found and address them. None of this is expressing anti-vax sentiments just part of the process, which we all hope are being taken note of by the manufacturers.
3.the information should be moderating who gets the vaccines and change who is automatically selected for receiving the vaccines, OR, measure put in place to address the issues popping up. It does NOT mean the vax program should be stopped and it does not mean that people who raise questions should be labelled as anti-vax.
4. There are many older people in the country, the parents of all of you lot who DID NOT get some of the vaccines you so glibly talk about that you got! I never ever received the vaccines for chickenpox, measels, and a few more simply because they did not exist when we were kids -- we got those ailments the old fashioned way. Hence there is a natural resistance but into a large chunk of the population.
5. There is absolutely nothing wrong with each and every person choosing to be concerned and cautious. Our government has not been heaped itself in glory in this process at all. And it has screwed up the vax program plenty of times.
6. these are NOT opinions being "vomited up on an open forum" - these are 100% valid concerns that we want to know if our ringmaster and his clowns are even looking at!

Just look at the latest debacle with purchasing the WRONG syringes! -- That is an absolute indictment against the health department! It is a disgrace to hear that 1 does out of 6 is wasted just because our lot did not bother to CHECK before placing the order!
To show the seriousness of this "error". It means throwing away 166 667 does out of every 1 million purchased! Just how fast do you think any costs savings on another purchasing fiasco by the health department is used up like this?

Why should anyone have Any faith in this useless lot? what else have they failed to check?? and evaluate?
Just to respond to your point #4 there: many many adults have died from chickenpox. It's a serious disease to get when you are middle/old aged. The fact that you probably didnt get it yourself is because of herd immunity and so many who did get vaccinated, and saved you.
 

Geoff.D

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
23,773
Just to respond to your point #4 there: many many adults have died from chickenpox. It's a serious disease to get when you are middle/old aged. The fact that you probably didnt get it yourself is because of herd immunity and so many who did get vaccinated, and saved you.
No, I did get it because I got it before the vaccine was even available. As with measles. Those vaccines were NOT available when were kids.
Herd immunity played no role, we all got it because our patents saw to it that we got as kids. Precisely because it was known how dangerous it is later in life.
 

Lupus

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Messages
36,358
No, I did get it because I got it before the vaccine was even available. As with measles. Those vaccines were NOT available when were kids.
Herd immunity played no role, we all got it because our patents saw to it that we got as kids. Precisely because it was known how dangerous it is later in life.
Considering the vaccine only came out in the 70s, you would've been in your 30s already? So sadly yes you'd have to have gotten it the old fashioned way. Even in the 80s I got chickenpox the old fashioned way, mainly cause it was still not overly distributed by the government yet. We used to have nurses come to the government schools to give shots, do tests for sight, hearing and the old cough.
 

Lupus

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Messages
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Geoff.D

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Messages
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Considering the vaccine only came out in the 70s, you would've been in your 30s already? So sadly yes you'd have to have gotten it the old fashioned way. Even in the 80s I got chickenpox the old fashioned way, mainly cause it was still not overly distributed by the government yet. We used to have nurses come to the government schools to give shots, do tests for sight, hearing and the old cough.
Even with my kids born in the 70's, the vaccines were not easily available. One had to ask for it, it was not automatically administered. The supply was limited.
 

Lupus

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Messages
36,358
Even with my kids born in the 70's, the vaccines were not easily available. One had to ask for it, it was not automatically administered. The supply was limited.
I know, I was around in the 80s, we didn't get it then either only around the late 80s when my brother was born did it become a more standard thing. I got it at 4 years old :-(
 

R13...

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Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
38,986
I'm pretty sure I had the chicken pox vaccine as a kid, still ended up getting the virus in my early 20s
You can't get chicken pox twice. You might get shingles later but shouldn't be at that young an age without some immune issues.
 

SlinkyMike

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
8,388
These vaccines have been rushed through the system at breakneck speed, plenty of shortcuts taken with many outstanding questions.
This is dead, dead wrong. Please do some research before proliferating this stuff.

Here: https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/were-the-covid-19-vaccines-rushed

...specifically point 5 "Overlapping phases" you're simply failing to understand how a project can be managed in more than one way, especially if there is a huge amount of funding available that no one minds burning.

NYT has a great Gantt chart illustrating this:
1624260836371.png


Can you elaborate on the 'many questions outstanding' perhaps?
 

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Nurple Derple

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Mar 22, 2010
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22,295
You can't get chicken pox twice. You might get shingles later but shouldn't be at that young an age without some immune issues.
Most people who have had chickenpox or have been vaccinated against chickenpox are immune to chickenpox. A few people can get chickenpox more than once, but this is rare. If you've been vaccinated and still get chickenpox, symptoms are often milder, with fewer blisters and mild or no fever.

When I was in school there was the odd 1 or 2 kids who got it kids who got it across my entire primary school time.

I got it from my younger brother, interesting my other brother didn't get infected.
 

Geoff.D

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Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
23,773
This is dead, dead wrong. Please do some research before proliferating this stuff.

Here: https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/were-the-covid-19-vaccines-rushed

...specifically point 5 "Overlapping phases" you're simply failing to understand how a project can be managed in more than one way, especially if there is a huge amount of funding available that no one minds burning.

NYT has a great Gantt chart illustrating this:
View attachment 1092249


Can you elaborate on the 'many questions outstanding' perhaps?
Chart no doubt produced using MS Project.
The process was rushed. There is NO evidence yet to show what the negative effects are for rushing the process. We are yet to find out. And maybe part if the lessons are now showing up.
Paying lip service to stages and doing things in parallel just so that you can tick boxes does NOT mean that crucial aspects have been covered.
We all hope that nothing really serious has been missed. We trust and have blind faith that nothing has been missed.

To use a phrase that our health department use to write off the problems with their failed EVDS system, and deliberately used as facetiously:
"Time is a great healer".
Maybe it should be:
Time can hide many things.
 
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