South African Covid-19 News and Discussions 3

"D"

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"This shows that over 20 million South Africans have had the virus already and did not know it."

Or perhaps the virus spreads heavily at blood donor clinics because of all the vain swarms of visitors opening up their veins all over the place and spending so much time there, and their blood extractions being spread around so carelessly. Lifegivers? More like a death cult! :unsure:
 
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The business group Sakeliga has lodged a court application to compel the government to disclose its grounds for the state of disaster, disaster management regulations and lockdown levels.

The court application forms part of a process, in terms of the Promotion of Access to Information Act, to obtain Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma’s records of decision-making regarding the lockdown and all disaster management regulations. In terms of the Disaster Management Act, Dlamini-Zuma as Minister of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs, is the person responsible for enacting these regulations.

“The goal posts for when the restriction must be lifted, are constantly shifting. President Cyril Ramaphosa’s point of view this past Sunday, that the restrictions will continue until an acceptable number of people have been vaccinated, contradicts the earlier rationale that restrictions are a temporary step and is only intended to flatten waves of infection. This previous standard, as well as hospital capacity and number of deaths, are now inexplicably shifting to the background. The shifting of goal posts, without transparency, is detrimental to the social, economic and constitutional order,” said Piet le Roux, CEO of Sakeliga.
 

Paulsie

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An interesting response by Panda to the hit piece written by Ground up. Also addresses the now famed graphic from Groote Schuur Hospital.

The many individuals who get COVID soon after vaccination are counted as unvaccinated. Immunosuppression was noted at least in the Pfizer trials, where lymphcytopenia was observed, and in the Astra Zeneca trials, where neutropenia was observed in 46% of recipients in the first 14 days. This risk was also cited in this Danish study. This effect places recipients at significantly enhanced risk of contracting Covid immediately after vaccination, a phenomenon that is so pronounced as to be observable in the national Covid death curves of some 90 countries, some of which were substantially free of Covid deaths prior to the inception of mass vaccination programmes. That such deaths are being obscured by public health officials in South Africa and elsewhere, by way of categorising them as Covid deaths among the unvaccinated, instead of as vaccine adverse events, is cynical. This is probably the reason why the government doesn’t reflect partially vaccinated. Sound public health messaging would include a warning that people are at enhanced risk to Covid in the days after injection.
 

tetrasect

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An interesting response by Panda to the hit piece written by Ground up. Also addresses the now famed graphic from Groote Schuur Hospital.


Sure, that will materialize into an actual warning, if it is true.

PANDA has a long history of crying wolf.

Maybe if they are right this time their reputation will be somewhat restored.
 

Geoff.D

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Sure, that will materialize into an actual warning, if it is true.

PANDA has a long history of crying wolf.

Maybe if they are right this time their reputation will be somewhat restored.
You are so completely assimilated into the BS.
PANDA, has a long history of being completely open and very accurate with its predictions, evaluation of the Science and successfully showing up the entire scam going on in SA.
And, a brilliant expose of that crap graphic of distorted data and incredibly poor statistical analysis.
The crap started when our infamous professor in GS made his first statement on unvaccinated patients in ICU. While no one is questioning his medical abilities, he sure has almost zero understanding of how to undertake a credible numerical analysis of data and then how to use even the simplest of statistical tools.
It ius an absolute disgrace to see how respected medical professionals allow themselves to be "captured" by these fear mongerers and the stupid ideas of how to end these will LDs. The government is so crippled by all of this and is looking for a way out that does not leave them egg on their faces
We had another example of the rubbish data and stats presented to Parliament today by DoH. It was embarrassing to listen to and watch how it was received and understood by a mostly ignorant parliament. No one could make head or tails of the rubbish presented.
 
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tetrasect

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You are so completely assimilated into the BS!

What does that mean? Back in the day PANDA was saying that Covid deaths were actually caused by the lockdown and a whole bunch of other BS. And their latest parade is a spiel about how vaccines will kill the human population or some such crap.

PANDA are the BS peddlers, which side are you on?
 
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You are so completely assimilated into the BS.
PANDA, has a long history of being completely open and very accurate with its predictions, evaluation of the Science and successfully showing up the entire scam going on in SA.
And, a brilliant expose of that crap graphic of distorted data and incredibly poor statistical analysis.
The crap started when our infamous professor in GS made his first statement on unvaccinated patients in ICU. While no one is questioning his medical abilities, he sure has almost zero understanding of how to undertake a credible numerical analysis of data and then how to use even the simplest of statistical tools.
It ius an absolute disgrace to see how respected medical professionals allow themselves to be "captured" by these fear mongerers and the stupid ideas of how to end these will LDs. The government is so crippled by all of this and is looking for a way out that does not leave them egg on their faces
We had another example of the rubbish data and stats presented to Parliament today by DoH. It was embarrassing to listen to and watch how it was received and understood by a mostly ignorant parliament. No one could make head or tails of the rubbish presented.

Nah. I initially was a supporter of PANDA because of their anti-lockdown stance but they have gone off into the deep end of nonsense and have also made many incorrect predictions themselves.
 

Daveogg

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The crap started when our infamous professor in GS made his first statement on unvaccinated patients in ICU. While no one is questioning his medical abilities, he sure has almost zero understanding of how to undertake a credible numerical analysis of data and then how to use even the simplest of statistical tools.
@Geoff I think you will find he is quite accomplished at numerical analysis and has a understanding of statistics.
 
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The vaccination programme did not greatly ease the burden of Covid-19 in the Western Cape as too few people have been inoculated to have made a significant difference, Professor Marc Mendelson of Groote Schuur Hospital lamented.

The one exception, however, has been the reduction in serious infections of healthcare workers, which eased clinical service provision, the head of the Division of Infectious Diseases and HIV Medicine told News24.
 

Paulsie

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What does that mean? Back in the day PANDA was saying that Covid deaths were actually caused by the lockdown and a whole bunch of other BS. And their latest parade is a spiel about how vaccines will kill the human population or some such crap.

PANDA are the BS peddlers, which side are you on?
In your opinion, if vaccination temporarily reduces immunity (as had been shown), should vaccinated people not be warned of this? And if they then get infected within the first two weeks and die, should this not be recorder separately?
Had they not been vaccinated, would they have still died of covid as their immune system would have been temporarily stronger?

Lots of questions with very few important answers.
 

Paulsie

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The one exception, however, has been the reduction in serious infections of healthcare workers, which eased clinical service provision, the head of the Division of Infectious Diseases and HIV Medicine told News24.
Would this not be expected as health workers had ongoing exposure throughout all waves??
 
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Media reports, along with comments from the medical fraternity constantly said the third wave was worse than the second, but the excess deaths tracker says otherwise. I guess one could argue that the 2nd wave peaked much faster the third wave so total deaths might be overall higher in the third wave. But the third wave peak was definitely lower than the second wave peak by quite some distance.

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Daveogg

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Media reports, along with comments from the medical fratenirty constantly said the third wave was worse than the second, but the excess deaths tracker says otherwise. I guess one could argue that the 2nd wave peaked much faster the third wave so total deaths might be overall higher in the third wave. But the third wave peak was definitely lower than the second wave peak by quite some distance.

View attachment 1149426
I think it goes to geography. So if you are seeing a comment from the GP crowd, the 3rd wave was the worst. If from the KZN crowd 2nd wave was worse. Cape I am guessing pretty even. Lets just hope for everyone 4th wave is only a ripple.
 

Lupus

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Media reports, along with comments from the medical fratenirty constantly said the third wave was worse than the second, but the excess deaths tracker says otherwise. I guess one could argue that the 2nd wave peaked much faster the third wave so total deaths might be overall higher in the third wave. But the third wave peak was definitely lower than the second wave peak by quite some distance.

View attachment 1149426
I'd still not really look at excess deaths until we have official numbers, there's a reason it takes a few years to get the real excess numbers. But even reported deaths look lower then second wave, only a little bit bigger then first wave, so Delta hit more people but actually resulted in less deaths? So the virus is more transmittable but not as fatal?
 

pinball wizard

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Delta hit more people but actually resulted in less deaths? So the virus is more transmittable but not as fatal?
That was the initial thought on Delta when it was identified. It was the msm sky is falling brigade who changed that to whip the frenzy of fear into high gear.
 

semaphore

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@Geoff I think you will find he is quite accomplished at numerical analysis and has a understanding of statistics.
Ignore Geoff, he has a habit of running his mouth when he has no clue what he's even talking about, he seems to think he is the authority on critical analysis.
 

Lupus

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That was the initial thought on Delta when it was identified. It was the msm sky is falling brigade who changed that to whip the frenzy of fear into high gear.
I thought that was still the thought? I mean didn't a lot of people say that yeah it may hit more people but the deaths are still relatively low compared to the previous ones?
Okay lets say we take a look at the 1st of December to 1st of March during second wave.
In that 90 days:
Deaths: 27 981
New cases: 721 660
Giving a death rate of 3.81%

Then we look at 1st June to 1st September covering third wave:
Deaths: 25 895
New cases: 1 117 972
Giving a death rate of 2.31%

So yeah Delta was actually less deadly.

First wave which was 1st June to 1st September 2020
Deaths: 13 844
New cases: 594 302
Giving a death rate of 2,32%

So yeah technically third wave was less deadlier even though it was basically longer.
 

tetrasect

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In your opinion, if vaccination temporarily reduces immunity (as had been shown), should vaccinated people not be warned of this? And if they then get infected within the first two weeks and die, should this not be recorder separately?
Had they not been vaccinated, would they have still died of covid as their immune system would have been temporarily stronger?

Lots of questions with very few important answers.

Yes, if true then people should be told to isolate after getting inoculated.
 
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