South African Covid-19 News and Discussions 3

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This is for the over 60s (different to the article posted by @Gordon_R ). I do have a profound disagreement that WC consider people like me (with one shot) as unvaccinated. They can create another category called partially vaccinated. Obviously it'd be interesting to know how many were actually fully vaccinated at the time this snapshot was taken.

1632150605345.png
 

Gordon_R

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This is for the over 60s (different to the article posted by @Gordon_R ). I do have a profound disagreement that WC consider people like me (with one shot) as unvaccinated. They can create another category called partially vaccinated. Obviously it'd be interesting to know how many were actually fully vaccinated at the time this snapshot was taken.

View attachment 1151230

Point taken, but it gets very difficult to display multiple parameters over time in the same set of charts. It's hard enough to present simple empirical evidence that vaccines do work, without this fact being distorted by the usual suspects.
 

Geoff.D

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Obviously it'd be interesting to know how many were actually fully vaccinated at the time this snapshot was taken.

This is the key! The above stats are not at all useful out of context. And they are even more misleading because of the way the graphic is prepared. The visual picture makes a bigger impression than the numbers do! So unless you take the trouble to understand the maths, you get the WRONG impression.

Just one of the distortions: Change the scale is just unacceptable

wc.png

BTW where is the link to this to be found on the WC website? And do they show the whole pop equivalent?
 
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Geoff.D

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This is the key! The above stats are not at all useful out of context. And they are even more misleading because of the way the graphic is prepared. The visual picture makes a bigger impression than the numbers do! So unless you take the trouble to understand the maths, you get the WRONG impression.

Just one of the distortions: Change the scale is just unacceptable

View attachment 1151276

BTW where is the link to this to be found on the WC website?
 

_Dog

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Why don't they use data form the UK where you have +-65% fully vaccinated?

In the UK, as per latest report, the fully vaccinated make up 70% of Covid Delta deaths ....

Don't know why the WC government persist in cherry picking data from small population examples, when you have proper long term data?


https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ars-cov-2-variant-variant-of-concern-20201201
 

Geoff.D

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Why don't they use data form the UK where you have +-65% fully vaccinated?

In the UK, as per latest report, the fully vaccinated make up 70% of Covid Delta deaths ....

Don't know why the WC government persist in cherry picking data from small population examples, when you have proper long term data?


https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ars-cov-2-variant-variant-of-concern-20201201
Agree and disagree. Yes the UK data will sketch a better statistical picture and the stats make more sense. On the other hand, very little in SA is the same as in the UK.

But WC can do it BUT then represent the data properly and not play on people's perception because then it becomes downright dishonest.
 

Sinbad

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This is the key! The above stats are not at all useful out of context. And they are even more misleading because of the way the graphic is prepared. The visual picture makes a bigger impression than the numbers do! So unless you take the trouble to understand the maths, you get the WRONG impression.

Just one of the distortions: Change the scale is just unacceptable

View attachment 1151276

BTW where is the link to this to be found on the WC website? And do they show the whole pop equivalent?
That scale change makes perfect sense. You're not supposed to compare population to admissions or illnesses on that infographic. Compare like for like.
 

Geoff.D

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That scale change makes perfect sense. You're not supposed to compare population to admissions or illnesses on that infographic. Compare like for like.
That is fine for us who understand these things. But it is about what others understand.

There WILL be those that will play on these differences!
 
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Geoff.D

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Even the title of the presentation and news release is loaded with distortion!

Vaccines remain the most effective weapon we have in the fight against COVID-19​


What else do we have?

Mask wearing? --- not much true benefit derived for a multitude of reasons from the quality of masks to suitability, to poorly worn etc.

Social Distancing? -- totally based on the now known erroneous belief that the biggest transfer vector is droplets.

Prophylactic treatments? - zero, nada, nothing. --- and every time one surfaces the entire pro-vax regime comes out guns blazing.
 
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Paulsie

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Point taken, but it gets very difficult to display multiple parameters over time in the same set of charts. It's hard enough to present simple empirical evidence that vaccines do work, without this fact being distorted by the usual suspects.
Vaccines do work, no question about that. Also no doubt about the fact that a portion of the unvaccinated narrative contains a number of partially vaccinated persons that are there because of their temporarily weakened immune system. How large or small is that number we do not know.
 

Mirai

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This is the key! The above stats are not at all useful out of context. And they are even more misleading because of the way the graphic is prepared. The visual picture makes a bigger impression than the numbers do! So unless you take the trouble to understand the maths, you get the WRONG impression.

Just one of the distortions: Change the scale is just unacceptable

View attachment 1151276

BTW where is the link to this to be found on the WC website? And do they show the whole pop equivalent?

Geoff, if the vaccine was useless, we'd expect to see a similar proportion of vaxed to unvaxed in hospital.
If vaccine was causing ADE we'd expect vaxxed >>> unvaxxed in hospital.

Vaccine works. And if everyone was vaxxed we'd see far, far fewer cases overall in hospital. Essentially reduce the red by the reduction in risk of white vs red.
 

Mirai

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Why don't they use data form the UK where you have +-65% fully vaccinated?

In the UK, as per latest report, the fully vaccinated make up 70% of Covid Delta deaths ....

Don't know why the WC government persist in cherry picking data from small population examples, when you have proper long term data?


https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ars-cov-2-variant-variant-of-concern-20201201

When J&J did ENSEMBLE, we had 6 deaths on placebo vs 0 deaths on vaccine. ALL DEATHS were in SA. The only deaths in the ENSEMBLE study linked to COVID-19 thus far, were in South Africa.

That's why.

We need local data for our local population, our local strains and especially our local HOSPITALS.

Because your chances are likely to be lower if you end up in an SA private or state ICU/HCU than a developed world one. And some of that is because of the better care they can afford to give other there. We are even limited in some of the agents we have in SA.
 

tetrasect

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Why don't they use data form the UK where you have +-65% fully vaccinated?

In the UK, as per latest report, the fully vaccinated make up 70% of Covid Delta deaths ....

Don't know why the WC government persist in cherry picking data from small population examples, when you have proper long term data?


https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ars-cov-2-variant-variant-of-concern-20201201

Also because the 60+ population are the most vaccinated in SA. What's the point of stats on age groups where only 10% have been vaccinated? Obviously the people dying will be almost exclusively unvaccinated because the people in that age group are almost all unvaccinated. Pointless when trying to draw comparisons between vaxxed and unvaxxed.

Also, as far as the UK numbers go, that's 65% vaccinated of the entire population which includes ages 0-18.

When looking at number of deaths we see a different picture. Currently around 150 a day compared to almost 10 times that during the last wave.
 
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Ghost64

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Any stats for Covid deaths by race in SA? Do such stats exist yet to the public?
 

Geoff.D

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Any stats for Covid deaths by race in SA? Do such stats exist yet to the public?
NICD has some stats based on race.
We will have to wait for STATSA to do the analysis but that means waiting 3 years.
 

flytek

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With Lupus and Pinball Wizard so keen on excess death confirmation so am I.
What are we all expecting then?
Plus or minus 25% from the existing estimate?
 
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