South African Expat Voting Rights

[cerebus]

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_2430514,00.html

Cape Town - Democratic Alliance leader Helen Zille will lobby for the right of all South Africans living abroad to vote, at a meeting with Independent Electoral Commission head Brigalia Bam on Friday, the party said.

Zille said that Section 33(1)(e) of the Electoral Act provides for South African citizens who are temporarily abroad - for purposes of a holiday, a business trip, attending a tertiary institution, or participating in an international sports event - to vote in national and provincial elections by special vote.

The DA believes that the section should be extended to include South African citizens who are living abroad, many of whom intend returning.

In addition, to enable these South Africans abroad to vote, it is essential for the IEC to make provision for them to register at South African embassies and consulates. This is critical if the IEC is to fulfil its constitutional mandate.

Prisoners can vote

"In most constitutional democracies, prisoners are not entitled to vote, while nationals living abroad are. In South Africa, we have the opposite situation where prisoners can vote and South Africans abroad cannot. The irony is bitter," Zille said in a statement.

Procedures are already in place for special votes and it would be possible for South Africans abroad to follow the same procedure and vote at their nearest South African mission.

A debate is running on the subject on the website www.constitutionallyspeaking.co.za , with some arguing that South Africans abroad should fly back home to vote, with others demanding that they be allowed to vote, irrespective of why they are living abroad.

Additionally a new political party, the A Party, headed by Anthony Penderis, is running on the platform of the taking the government to court on the back of the South African expat vote:

“My legal representatives have instructed a Senior Counsel experienced in political matters to give us an opinion on the chances of overturning The Electoral Laws Amendment Act passed through Parliament just before the 2004 election,” says Mr. A, chairman and leader of the A-Party, South Africa’s youngest party being registered with the Independent Electoral Council (IEC).

“This Act has robbed all South Africans working (Expats), studying or travelling abroad from a chance of voting during the last election. This is unfair and clearly a tactic by the government to block potential votes against them. The majority of South Africans Expats will certainly not vote for this government.

“This legal opinion has never been written and depending on the findings of the SC we might consider challenging the Government in the Constitutional Court. A ruling in our favour could force the government to postpone the elections to allow reasonable time for voter registration overseas,” says Mr. A.

www.aparty.org.za

 

[sox63]

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_2430514,00.html



Additionally a new political party, the A Party, headed by Anthony Penderis, is running on the platform of the taking the government to court on the back of the South African expat vote:




www.aparty.org.za

Since when is living and WORKING abroad, a temporary thing?

The DA believes that the section should be extended to include South African citizens who are living abroad, many of whom intend returning.

When are they returning? The legislation is fair as it is, IMO. If you have chosen to leave the country, why oh why do you want to now vote? It makes no sense what so ever in my book.

If a person is there on a temporary contract, no problem. However for them to be living there, sorry I feel you should NOT be voting.

 

[rwenzori]

Since when is living and WORKING abroad, a temporary thing?



When are they returning? The legislation is fair as it is, IMO. If you have chosen to leave the country, why oh why do you want to now vote? It makes no sense what so ever in my book.

If a person is there on a temporary contract, no problem. However for them to be living there, sorry I feel you should NOT be voting.

Any of-age citizen of the country should be entitled to vote. That is democracy. Anything else is partisan fiddling of the system for political expediency.

 

[sox63]

Any of-age citizen of the country should be entitled to vote. That is democracy. Anything else is partisan fiddling of the system for political expediency.

If a person does not want to be a citizen? They would have to demonstate a reasonable expectation that their situation is temporary.

Those that have left becuase they can't stand this country as some have said. Should not be allowed to vote.

Thats just my personal feeling. And as for "partisan fiddling of the system for political expediancy", why do you think the DA is making this request?

A lot of their traditional support base has packed up and left the country.

 

[Gazer]

If you're a citizen you should be entitled to vote. It doesn't matter where you live. This is the case in other countries. In the recent US elections there were many US citizens who cast their vote while living abroad...my husband has a European passport (thanks to his parents) and yet he's never been to Europe but he can vote in the elections of the country his passport is from.

 

[cerebus]

Thing is when my wife was living in the UK like five years ago she was able to vote. Then 2004 they changed the laws out of the blue. So it was a right that SA expats were already entitled to, debates aside, until it was decreed that they would be denied it.

 

[bwana]

If you're a citizen you should be entitled to vote. It doesn't matter where you live. This is the case in other countries. In the recent US elections there were many US citizens who cast their vote while living abroad...my husband has a European passport (thanks to his parents) and yet he's never been to Europe but he can vote in the elections of the country his passport is from.

Why would anyone want to shape the course of a nation they have no interest in visiting, let alone live in?

 

[rwenzori]

If a person does not want to be a citizen? They would have to demonstate a reasonable expectation that their situation is temporary.

Those that have left becuase they can't stand this country as some have said. Should not be allowed to vote.

Thats just my personal feeling. And as for "partisan fiddling of the system for political expediancy", why do you think the DA is making this request?

A lot of their traditional support base has packed up and left the country.

About the DA - they are just trying to undo some immoral "partisan fiddling of the system for political expediency" by the ANC.

If someone does not want to be a citizen then they should renounce it, if they have dual citizenship.

 

[rwenzori]

Why would anyone want to shape the course of a nation they have no interest in visiting, let alone live in?

Maybe not now, but times change, things change.

 

[Frankie]

Why would anyone want to shape the course of a nation they have no interest in visiting, let alone live in?

I'd guess the reason would be to vote for change - change the very things that make most want to leave, like ANC arrogance, corruption, embezzlement, BEE, AA, .......... and attempt to ensure that AIDS shower boy Jacob Zuma does not become SA's president.
If you hold SA citizenship it entitles you to vote wherever you may be in the world, just like most other civilised countries allow.

The reason why it's not been allowed for some time now is blatantly obvious - they feared it could influence their majority.

 

[marine1]

most people have left due to crime and chaos in this country. The anc know that these ex pats will probably not vote for them and this is why they are not allowed to vote. Please don't tell me the iec made this decision- the iec is a branch of the anc. Citizens of any country should have the right to vote in their country no matter what. How many people have left ? Couple of million? That's a lot of votes against the ANC

 

[cerebus]

A lot of SA expats left the country either reluctantly or temporarily, and those include the country's brightest and best. They would return to SA in a heartbeat if conditions changed. It's unfair to deny them a say in the country's future.

 

[JimM]

Since when is living and WORKING abroad, a temporary thing?



When are they returning? The legislation is fair as it is, IMO. If you have chosen to leave the country, why oh why do you want to now vote? It makes no sense what so ever in my book.

If a person is there on a temporary contract, no problem. However for them to be living there, sorry I feel you should NOT be voting.

My son-in-law has been sent to Canada/USA for four years by his South African based company. Sent to work for four years in another country sounds kind of temporary to me.

I have voting rights in my native UK, I don't live there but I have the right to return at any time I choose. I have the right to choose how my birth country is run, simply because I may wish to return.

Unless a South African has relinquished their citizenship, they too should have the right to vote.

Most of those who have left South Africa to work in the UK, Canada, New Zealand etc., have done so because of affirmative action. Before I left the UK to live in South Africa I regularly spoke to ex-pats from South Africa and almost 90% said that they would return if 1. They could get a similar job and 2. The crime level was somewhat lower. They are almost refugees in my eyes!

Don't deny a South African the right to vote simply because they left and got a job overseas and you didn't!

One day I'll vote in a South African election because I'm sure I'll eventually get an ID card... I've only been waiting four years!

Springboks vs England - Who do I support? Easy... the winner!!

 

[Gazer]

Why would anyone want to shape the course of a nation they have no interest in visiting, let alone live in?

He has never participated in those elections but he has the option of doing so if he feels like it. The point is that in first world countries ALL citizens have the right to vote...it's a right of citizenship not something the govt can decide to take away from you because you happen to be out of their borders.

 

[werner]

as an expat, let me tell you how I feel about this. I've been overseas 11 years now, temporarily, my s.a. passport has expired, and I have the option of getting a Uk one if I want. i.e. right now I am passportless. I have been thinking about this for a very very long time, even though to most people it is an easy decision (get the uk one, run like hell). The reality is that after 11 years I am still eyeing out S.A., I am still contemplating my next moves and if I could vote again in order to change things then I would grab that chance, because it may mean the difference between living under a cloud of grayness and seeing friends and family in a peaceful environment. Who knows hey...times change, decisions change. and there are a heck of a lot more "like me" over here..even my sister has been here since 94 still has a s.a. passport.

 

[fskmh]

I was at a conference in the UK in 2004 and was not able to vote. Came back to SA with "intellectuals" like William Makgoba crowing that the opposition were no longer needed. This is after the ANC garnered the votes of 39% of all eligible voters, (56% of 70%, do the arithmetic yourself).

Funny how quickly that notion of universal suffrage in chapter 1 of our constitution becomes conditional.

 

[reech]

Funny how quickly that notion of universal suffrage in chapter 1 of our constitution becomes conditional.

+1
Thanks for that.

 

[BTTB]

Why would anyone want to shape the course of a nation they have no interest in visiting, let alone live in?

Good point.
Which is also suggestive that the current position of not allowing people who are overseas to vote is unfair as it is obvious to any reasonable person, as Bwana put it, people who have no interest in returning to a country would have very little or no reason to vote or even care what happens in it, so why cant the people that want to vote be allowed to. This is not what our Constitution is all about.

In my opinion people with valid South African Identity Documents, people born in South Africa where ever they are should be able to exercise their right to vote for their country.

Just take my brother for instance. He works 3 months overseas and one month off when he returns to South Africa to be with his family.
My question to this clever Government is the following - Why does a person like my brother work overseas in the first place and the simple answer is to make enough money so that he wont be a Mortgage Slave the rest of his life as the cost of living in South Africa relative to our Incomes is out of kilter.

 

[Frankie]

Human Rights N° 14: Right to Seek a Safe Place to Live
But does not exclude them from returning when safe to do so, or voting out those (ANC) that contribute to, and are responsible for, the unsafe conditions.

 

[zippy]

I left SA for the UK Sept 2007. My visa is up for renewal in June 2009. All I have to do is stay employed until then and it will get renewed for another 3 years. That will put me on 5years, after which I qualify for permanent residence. 1 More year and I get a UK passport.

After the 1994 election, I felt very positive about the future in SA. But sadly, racial stereotypes actually got worse. The only issues the DA etc. could come up with, where if they where anti-ANC. All the ANC could do is whine about the past. They have been unable to actually do anything meaningful. Frankly I got tired having to feel guilty about holding down a job because I was white. Almost daily I had to listen to how I can never be promoted etc.

If my visa gets renewed in Jun 2009, I will not be coming back to SA. I wont be whining about not being allowed to vote. I can vote now in UK where politicians actually fear voters. I work in an environment where my contribution is recognised. I work with people from all races, nationalities and we meet up on the odd weekend for a couple of pints. You think you live in a multiracial society in SA?? You have no idea. You live in a society of multiple races, but it certainly isnt multi-racial. The Brits have managed to build the most multi-racial society there is(maybe thats saying too much, but it way better than even the US). This is not possible in South Africa and I dont believe it will be for a very long time. There is respect for people here. Yes, there are problems. But they are the vast exception. Dont come to the UK if you are a racist, because you will live and work amongst other races. Especially in London.

In London, serious crime makes the news on TV. There is outrage. In South Africa it only features in the local paper because its so common. What I find amusing is that many here think of South Africa as some miracle. Well, I let them believe that.

I will only come back if I am forced to. I dont intend visiting either. I went back in May this year. I wont do it again. I would rather fly my family to the UK for a holiday.