South African government demands bank report takedown

[rwenzori]

Anyone care to summarise the report. Extrapolate the juicy parts.

Not me - that report is srsly turgid and prolix!

 

[daveza]

This story made headlines in todays Rapport -

http://www.news24.com/Rapport/Suid-Afrika/0,,752-2460_2444513,00.html

Die Mededingingskommissie (MK) het voorverlede Vrydag die tegniese verslag oor die ondersoek van regter Thabani Jali uitgereik, maar sekere inligting is van die publiek weerhou.

Die RSG-program Naweek aktueel het gister berig ’n ongesen-sorde verslag is die afgelope week op die webwerf Wikileaks gepubliseer, maar die MK het die webwerf binne twee dae gelas om die verslag te verwyder. ’n Afskrif van die ongesensorde verslag is in Rapport se besit.

 

[rwenzori]

n ongesen-sorde verslag is die afgelope week op die webwerf Wikileaks gepubliseer, maar die MK het die webwerf binne twee dae gelas om die verslag te verwyder

Quite so, but said webwerf seems to have told them to stick their request somewhere rather dark LOL.

 

[rwenzori]

My Acrobat Reader v8.1.2 doesn't appear to have such an option, where is it under Preferences?

Mine says it is 8.1.3. Edit... Preferences.... Accessibility... Replace Document Colors... ( mine is set to custom light green on black ).

Note that they have replaced the original versions on the site with ones that seem to be plain graphics rather than text. Else grab one from Wikileaks.

 

[stoke]

The CC is a victim of fraud. If somebody can prove that it was negligent, then there is a case, however, an initial investigation will be done to determine if a proper investigation must be done which will involve the formation of a task team, just to put the blame on somebody.

What an utter waste of time and money.

I wish the banks would simply view this as yet another heist and let it go, while scrambling like mad to enact the recommendations in the document.

I especially like the "You are a bank and you have no right to punish your customers for a debit order failure" angle.

Actually .. the whole document is clean cut straight down the line and sensible, and it should be getting a lot more media coverage on the recommendations raised.

This leak is causing a lot of unnecessary crap.

 

[remybfg10k]

Has anyone else seen any coverage of this in the media besides the rapport?

 

[w1z4rd]

Or an English version for those on this side or the boerewors curtain?

 

[kds]

Uncensored competition commission banking report available on wikileaks

Wikileaks has done it again, this time to SA banks! The story is simple, the competition commission published their findings on their website with large parts redacted. Someone got hold of the uncensored version and sent it off to wikileaks and the rest as they say is history.

http://www.legalbrief.co.za/article.php?story=20081223074124267

http://www.fin24.com/articles/default/display_article.aspx?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-24_2445247

Here is ABSA's view of the issue:

Some of the information was not for public consumption because other banks could then see it, which would curb competition in the sector.

From the same article a somewhat different view:

The report by the investigating panel, chaired by former judge Thabani Jali, found that the banks were colluding to stifle effective competition in the sector.

Costs levied were exorbitant and not calculated on the basis of real expenses, reads the report.

You make up your own mind, reading ABSA's viewpoint has made me reach for a pinch of salt. I am at work at a bank so I don't want to post the link to the report but it should be easy enough to find.

 

[Sneeky]

Fee info leak: Absa wants action

It seems the banks are a bit peeved at the fact that sensitive information regarding their exorbitant fees have been leaked to the public.

Refer to this link below, where a thread here was removed after a takedown request.
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=150804&highlight=wikileaks

The initial thread detailed a way to 'uncensor' the published documents.
Documents can be found on wikileaks here.
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/South_Afr...redacted_final_Report_on_Banking,_12_Dec_2008

From Fin24 today

Johannesburg - Absa says that it holds the competition commission responsible for the leaking of information about the banking investigation, but experts say it is not clear what the commission can do about it.

Absa spokesperson Keith McIvor says Absa voluntarily presented sensitive information to the commission.

Some of the information was not for public consumption because other banks could then see it, which would curb competition in the sector.

"Absa expects the competition commission to act on the issue," said McIvor.

The commission published a technical report on the investigation on its website, with large portions censored at the request of the banks.

An uncensored version however became available on the Wikileaks website.

The report by the investigating panel, chaired by former judge Thabani Jali, found that the banks were colluding to stifle effective competition in the sector.

Costs levied were exorbitant and not calculated on the basis of real expenses, reads the report.

Competition Commissioner Miranshan Ramburuth wrote to Wikileaks and requested that the uncensored version be removed from its website.

On the website Wikileaks claims to publish information covering various jurisdictions, organisations and individuals.

Once the document has been leaked it is practically impossible to censor it, says Wikileaks.

Legal experts say the competition commission's request to Wikileaks cannot succeed because only the American government can issue such an instruction. It is not a South African website and the commission cannot therefore enforce it.

Even if the American government enforce this, Wikileaks has various other websites around the world, including Britain, Sweden and Tonga.

In the commission's correspondence Ramburuth explains that an undertaking was given to financial institutions that certain information would remain confidential if they so wished.

The Jali panel had made its recommendations as early as June, but the release of the entire report was delayed to afford banks the opportunity to censor certain parts.

The censored information chiefly relates to costs levied on ATM transactions, and banks' actual profits from levies on transfers or Saswitch activities.

The investigation declared these fees exorbitant.

http://www.fin24.com/articles/default/display_article.aspx?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-24_2445247

 

[HypoThesis]

Ahhh, I love it. Who needs soap operas? SA bureaucrats FTW!
That letter the CC sent to Wikileaks just makes you say 'Ag shame'.

Now if only someone will get to analysing what the report actually says...

 

[remybfg10k]

And if there was some consumer backlash against all this....

 

[krycor]

I hope the unions start acting up.. they've been quiet. Its good time to have a march, people on vacation.. oh wait, must wait till january then

 

[Sneeky]

also, in the downloaded document from wikileaks the previousely 'censored bits' are now 'highlighted'.

Interesting pg 42/43 on effective competition, economies of scale, demand for banking services versus rising costs.
Reminiscent of TELKOM!



ic, just as a discussion point. Obviously acknowledging that this is a slip on the CC's behalf, if however the information provided is in fact incriminating banks along the lines of the investigation is the CC not compromised by suppressing such info???

If that makes any sense that is.

 

[HypoThesis]

I read that letter, I wonder if anyone else actually read it, and if they did read it were they able to comprehend what it says?

The CC's letter says that the banks provided the CC with certain information on condition that the CC respects and maintains the confidentiality that the banks have ascribed to that information. Unfortunately for the CC, it made the mistake of releasing that information in an easily accessible form, and another mistake was claiming that the unredactions were done illegally, which does not change the fact that the CC could be sued by the banks for failing to contain the damage and control the availability of the various banks' confidential info - that is IMO why the CC was forced to issue takedown notices, i.e. due to possible future legal action against the CC by the banks.

What else was the CC supposed to have done? - other than not making the initial redaction mistake that was so easily unredacted...

Look, what the CC needs to do is just admit they messed up. Apologise to the banks and all and sundry and move to get their recommendations in the report implemented by the banks. There is no way in hell that they will be able to retract that document even if Wikileaks pulls it (which i doubt) the very point that the info that was meant to have been supressed has already been read and seen by the public and legal eagles just defeats the whole point of pulling it. By throwing their toys they're creating more hype...

That letter the CC sent is basically a plea and nothing more, it explains the history behind the commission and the report and the reason why it was censored, which is fine, but at least admit you've mucked up and would truly appreciate it if your muck up wasn't advertised and that as a coutesy you'd appreciate it if the doc was removed. Threats usually just up the ante and cause more to laugh at you...which is what is happening now.

 

[Johand]

Unfiltered Competition Commission Report on WikiLeaks - ABSA throws toys out of cot

The FULL report on banking in South Africa is on WikiLeaks - the competition commission only published a censored version of this document.

ABSA is obviously upset about it (http://www.fin24.com/articles/defau...icleId=1518-24_2445247&IsColumnistStory=False).

The full document can be found on WikiLeaks (http://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/South...redacted_final_Report_on_Banking,_12_Dec_2008)

Thanks Fin24 for bringing it to our attention!!!

 

[shadowfox]

Ahahaha ... they're just angry cos they were trying to hide how much they were ripping people off from the public - and now its open to the public that they're ripping off.

Anyways, they can't demand Wikileaks take it down ... its hosted on an American server, and even if the US government puts pressure on them, they can simply move it to another server.

I think the report said as much.

 

[pope24]

Yup, this is great.

So amused that the full extent of the banks' duplicity is out there for everyone to see.

Why they needed a 590 page report to tell us we were being ripped off is a topic for another day. They could just have asked me...

 

[mercurial]

This is the 2nd repost. This was already posted before. This makes it the 3rd

 

[medicnick83]

Someone is very p'd off!

This is such a shocking report for me who have been a loyal client for close to 50 years. ABSA, previouslsy Volkskas, have certainly robbed me of millions. I am disgusted to say the least!! These type of thieves should be in jail, like the corrupted governmend officials.

 

[werner]

Thanks Fin24 for bringing it to our attention!!!

funny, as I recall it, it was the other way round.

anyway, moving on....