South African Mr Money Mustache?? early retirement guru

Freaksta

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I have read his full blog from back to front. I was pretty aggressive with saving in the start but i have gone off track. In the 2 years 9months ive been working ive been able to save 1 year of my gross salary (current latest salary, granted i have limited expenses so this is actually pretty bad).

I am hoping next year to get a better job which will allow me to up my savings rate as well. I think it depends at what stage of your life you start saving and when you decide to get married and have kids..
 
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ronz91

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I have read his full blog from back to front. I was pretty aggressive with saving in the start but i have gone off track. In the 3 years ive been working ive been able to save 1 year of my gross salary (current latest salary).

I am hoping next year to get a better job which will allow me to up my savings rate as well. I think it depends at what stage of your life you start saving and when you decide to get married and have kids..

well done! keep us posted! I think the more people collaborate, the closer we can get to Mustacian lives!
 

supersunbird

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I have read his full blog from back to front. I was pretty aggressive with saving in the start but i have gone off track. In the 3 years ive been working ive been able to save 1 year of my gross salary (current latest salary, granted i have limited expenses so this is actually pretty bad).

I am hoping next year to get a better job which will allow me to up my savings rate as well. I think it depends at what stage of your life you start saving and when you decide to get married and have kids..

That's still pretty good, congrats
 

heartbroken

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I have read his full blog from back to front. I was pretty aggressive with saving in the start but i have gone off track. In the 2 years 9months ive been working ive been able to save 1 year of my gross salary (current latest salary, granted i have limited expenses so this is actually pretty bad).

I am hoping next year to get a better job which will allow me to up my savings rate as well. I think it depends at what stage of your life you start saving and when you decide to get married and have kids..

Great work! Just keep at it, I find having a regular budget review, works wonders, every couple of months, like spring cleaning.

I got up to about 8 months in savings, but then I bought another house, deposit and costs ruined my savings, down to about a month of salary in short term savings. But, will get back on track soon, lots of unforeseen expenses now.
 

ronz91

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The controversy is over whether past returns can be predictive of future returns. And yeah, essentially it's whether 4% is too high. The counterargument is that people who are skilled at budgeting and active managers of their money can adjust their expenses and portfolio balancing if needed. In fact these people more often seem to find that their money increases more than anticipated, and their living expenses tend to be lower than anticipated.

found a great video talking about SWR
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GpC8U0tF0M
 

patrick

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I'm a fan too. Was always pretty frugal, but for the last few years I actually started trying. I'll retire before I'm 40 (Less than 3 years and 3 months time and counting).
 

ronz91

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I'm a fan too. Was always pretty frugal, but for the last few years I actually started trying. I'll retire before I'm 40 (Less than 3 years and 3 months time and counting).

Awesome stuff. Feel free to share your story Patrick.
 

patrick

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There's not much to it actually. It honestly surprises me that every professionally employed person doesn't save. I've worked three jobs in my life. The first for pathetic pay, then I took some time off to go enjoy life after getting told the pathetic pay wouldn't be increased. Something I could do thanks to having saved so well. The next job was a decent increase, and after that I took one for less pay that I wanted more. I got regular better than inflation increases, and like all good investments, they compound!

That took care of the earning side. For the spending side of things I always had a goal to live on half my salary. In the beginning that meant I had to live at home, and then with a room mate, but I did it. It didn't feel like deprivation at all, I've just never thrown money around. I've always bought used cars, and paid cash. I've never had debt for clothing accounts etc, or any other type of consumer debt. Never been too image conscious, so there are very few expensive name brands in my cupboard. I do have a child, but only one. He is the light of my life, but there won't be another. Fortunately for me, my new wife agrees with that! We both prefer spending on experiences rather than things. I'm completely anti-stuff to be honest, but she still likes things. We go on one very cool overseas trip per year. The Seychelles last year where we got engaged, and a few months ago we eloped to Paris for a fantastic wedding/honeymoon. Our families know we're weird enough not to worry about a "normal" wedding, so they were happy for us too. Plus we got to take awesome wedding photos like this:


I won't go into my budget in numbers, but percentahe wise about one third of my budget is for housing expenses, one third goes to looking after my son, and one third is my costs. It feels really comfortable that way and I don't feel like I lack for anything. My budget is probably lower than you imagine, and in my circle of friends it's comfortably the lowest. Still far higher than the majority of South Africa sadly. My friends keep asking when I'll get a new car, but I love my 11 year old Nissan Almera. It's super cheap to run, and still drives like everything is connected, not like a computer runs it. I like that I can feel when the road is rough through the steering wheel, and that when I change the throttle the noise changes straight away. It's also really cheap to insure and I don't feel bad pretending it's a 4x4 in the pilansberg, or loading it with camping gear when the three of us go away. I'm a big bicycle fan too, so I tend to bike the same distance I drive every month. It does help that I built a pretty decent electric bike...

On to investing. Sadly I never got into ETFs and the stock market until a few years ago, but I did own three properties over time. One for myself, and two rentals. They never did well relative to the stock market. Live and learn. Thankfully three years ago a now banned member called Marco got me on the right track. He made outrageous claims, that while potentially dangerous, was true. There were actually investments out there earning 20% plus per year. I crunched numbers, took a safe approach and got into the market. While the days of 20% are over, I know that in the long term I'm sitting pretty. I only do ETFs, I'm not smart enough to pick shares, or maybe I'm too smart!

So how did that all pan out? Well I'd say. I don't own a house anymore, thank god, but I'm currently sitting on about 300+ times my comfortable monthly spend in invested assets. The dividends alone could cover my bare ass budget if I stopped working at the end of the year. I've also got a reasonable pension fund, and if I included that, you could say I've got 400+ times my monthly spend invested, but there's no way I'm going to touch that money, and when I turn 62 it'll start paying me enough money that even in the worst case, I won't have to live in a box on a street corner.

The next question I get from people who understand finance is why am I still working? Well there are a few reasons. I love part of my job. Sadly I loathe a lot of it too, and that part seems to be growing. I'll see if I can hang on for the next 3 years 3 months. If I can, it get's my pension to match my comfortable living expenses, and my dividends should also be around that number. If I can't I'll most likely still be perfectly ok. I might take some fun work for a little while, or I might just begin living my dream life.

Incidently, I dream big. I'd love to bicycle tour ALL of Europe. I also did my skippers license a couple of years back (spending on experiences instead of things again), and I'd love to go explore the oceans at some point. Probably when my boy finishes school so he can come along.

This post turned out longer than I intended when starting, so sorry if it's a slight hijack. I do have a blog about things, including my views on money, spending, life etc if you're interested http://www.investorchallenge.co.za/blog/ but otherwise If there's anything else you'd like to know just ask-within reason I'm happy to share.
 
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SZN

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Thanks for the awesome share man. You're doing well, keep it up.

Sharing experiences/outlooks/lifestyles like yours (and others on this forum) has really helped me understand the importance of financial independence, investing, compound interest, etc.

Hopefully I'll be finishing my university studying this year. Will have a full time job next year so will earn a half decent salary which I can use to start investing.

Just read your doctor vs model story and found it quite interesting, I actually didn't get caught out as I understand compound interest. :D

I'm about half way between the model and the doctor age wise (will be 23 in a couple months). I'll be investing more over time in absolute terms as my salary grows and maybe one day I'll have a bank balance similar to theirs when I'm 65.

Will certainly be following your blog in the future.
 

ronz91

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There's not much to it actually. It honestly surprises me that every professionally employed person doesn't save. I've worked three jobs in my life. The first for pathetic pay, then I took some time off to go enjoy life after getting told the pathetic pay wouldn't be increased. Something I could do thanks to having saved so well. The next job was a decent increase, and after that I took one for less pay that I wanted more. I got regular better than inflation increases, and like all good investments, they compound!

That took care of the earning side. For the spending side of things I always had a goal to live on half my salary. In the beginning that meant I had to live at home, and then with a room mate, but I did it. It didn't feel like deprivation at all, I've just never thrown money around. I've always bought used cars, and paid cash. I've never had debt for clothing accounts etc, or any other type of consumer debt. Never been too image conscious, so there are very few expensive name brands in my cupboard. I do have a child, but only one. He is the light of my life, but there won't be another. Fortunately for me, my new wife agrees with that! We both prefer spending on experiences rather than things. I'm completely anti-stuff to be honest, but she still likes things. We go on one very cool overseas trip per year. The Seychelles last year where we got engaged, and a few months ago we eloped to Paris for a fantastic wedding/honeymoon. Our families know we're weird enough not to worry about a "normal" wedding, so they were happy for us too. Plus we got to take awesome wedding photos like this:


I won't go into my budget in numbers, but percentahe wise about one third of my budget is for housing expenses, one third goes to looking after my son, and one third is my costs. It feels really comfortable that way and I don't feel like I lack for anything. My budget is probably lower than you imagine, and in my circle of friends it's comfortably the lowest. Still far higher than the majority of South Africa sadly. My friends keep asking when I'll get a new car, but I love my 11 year old Nissan Almera. It's super cheap to run, and still drives like everything is connected, not like a computer runs it. I like that I can feel when the road is rough through the steering wheel, and that when I change the throttle the noise changes straight away. It's also really cheap to insure and I don't feel bad pretending it's a 4x4 in the pilansberg, or loading it with camping gear when the three of us go away. I'm a big bicycle fan too, so I tend to bike the same distance I drive every month. It does help that I built a pretty decent electric bike...

On to investing. Sadly I never got into ETFs and the stock market until a few years ago, but I did own three properties over time. One for myself, and two rentals. They never did well relative to the stock market. Live and learn. Thankfully three years ago a now banned member called Marco got me on the right track. He made outrageous claims, that while potentially dangerous, was true. There were actually investments out there earning 20% plus per year. I crunched numbers, took a safe approach and got into the market. While the days of 20% are over, I know that in the long term I'm sitting pretty. I only do ETFs, I'm not smart enough to pick shares, or maybe I'm too smart!

So how did that all pan out? Well I'd say. I don't own a house anymore, thank god, but I'm currently sitting on about 300+ times my comfortable monthly spend in invested assets. The dividends alone could cover my bare ass budget if I stopped working at the end of the year. I've also got a reasonable pension fund, and if I included that, you could say I've got 400+ times my monthly spend invested, but there's no way I'm going to touch that money, and when I turn 62 it'll start paying me enough money that even in the worst case, I won't have to live in a box on a street corner.

The next question I get from people who understand finance is why am I still working? Well there are a few reasons. I love part of my job. Sadly I loathe a lot of it too, and that part seems to be growing. I'll see if I can hang on for the next 3 years 3 months. If I can, it get's my pension to match my comfortable living expenses, and my dividends should also be around that number. If I can't I'll most likely still be perfectly ok. I might take some fun work for a little while, or I might just begin living my dream life.

Incidently, I dream big. I'd love to bicycle tour ALL of Europe. I also did my skippers license a couple of years back (spending on experiences instead of things again), and I'd love to go explore the oceans at some point. Probably when my boy finishes school so he can come along.

This post turned out longer than I intended when starting, so sorry if it's a slight hijack. I do have a blog about things, including my views on money, spending, life etc if you're interested http://www.investorchallenge.co.za/blog/ but otherwise If there's anything else you'd like to know just ask-within reason I'm happy to share.

Thanks Patrick for the fantastic share! Will also be following your journey with admiration!
 

Papsak

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Weirldy I was a few month before ER before finding MMM - was rather happy that other people in the world felt the same as me. Thats said, I genrally have more in common with these guys: forum.earlyretirementextreme.com - as they generally are on smaller budgets. Retired at 40 - now 42 - not with big bucks at all. For me it was all about having unlimited time to do whatever I want with - absolutly loving it so far. Enjoy patrick's site - some nice articles on there and well worth a read.
 

air

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May 19, 2005
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thanks Patrick (tips hat) - will definitely be reading your blog.
Congrats on such an awesome achievement!
 

Fireball

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Hey folks

Sorry to necro this thread, but this remains probably one of my favorite threads on the forums (I often refer back to it) and don't want to see it die.
Personal finance is probably one of my keenest interests, and I am a huge fan of Mr Money Mustache's and Patrick's blogs. Got started a little late, currently 26, but I hope with the lessons I'm learning from you guys that I can achieve financial independence at a sooner-rather-than-later age.

I want to hear you guys' thoughts on a different type of retirement. Instead of early retirement, what about a series of "mini-retirements", where you sort of take a few months sabbatical once or twice a year, before going back to work. I know Tim Ferris is a big proponent, and the idea is certainly intriguing. Now, this isn't really meant to be a vacation, instead it's an opportunity to explore possible side-gigs, or go traveling (while doing remote work), etc.

The reason it appeals to me, is I really want to be an entrepreneur, but I just don't manage to make any progress while being employed full-time. I'm also not brave enough to quit my job cold turkey just yet (still have some debt to crush), but I figure a 2-3 month break could be just the window I need to really get to it.


What do you guys think of this idea of mini-retirements? Anyone doing it or planning to do it?
 

ronz91

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Hey folks

Sorry to necro this thread, but this remains probably one of my favorite threads on the forums (I often refer back to it) and don't want to see it die.
Personal finance is probably one of my keenest interests, and I am a huge fan of Mr Money Mustache's and Patrick's blogs. Got started a little late, currently 26, but I hope with the lessons I'm learning from you guys that I can achieve financial independence at a sooner-rather-than-later age.

I want to hear you guys' thoughts on a different type of retirement. Instead of early retirement, what about a series of "mini-retirements", where you sort of take a few months sabbatical once or twice a year, before going back to work. I know Tim Ferris is a big proponent, and the idea is certainly intriguing. Now, this isn't really meant to be a vacation, instead it's an opportunity to explore possible side-gigs, or go traveling (while doing remote work), etc.

The reason it appeals to me, is I really want to be an entrepreneur, but I just don't manage to make any progress while being employed full-time. I'm also not brave enough to quit my job cold turkey just yet (still have some debt to crush), but I figure a 2-3 month break could be just the window I need to really get to it.


What do you guys think of this idea of mini-retirements? Anyone doing it or planning to do it?

Hey man

Thanks for the compliment (even though all I did was ask a question:D)

This is the main reason I started it, as the info provided by MMM and others usually has a distinctly 'American' or 'first world' sheen and I was keen to adapt these strategies for a SA perspective, to gather like minded people situated within these borders to put their cumulative grey matter together to come up with ideas or bounce ideas off one another.

As far as mini-retirements, I vaguely remember reading about it in the Four Hour Work Week(btw hope you also tune in to Tim's podcast), I'm not sure how this would be implemented in a SA context, as I haven't heard of anyone doing this here, nor to be honest have I really thought of it much myself. How would such an endeavor be done @Fireball?
 

^^vampire^^

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I've tried to approach this topic and build a website about it but to a large degree, especially now, our economy is hard to plan for.
As has been said, minimizing your monthly costs is the easiest way to achieve your goal. I could afford to live on R5000-R6000 a month if I wanted to at this stage and if it really came to it. This would obviously exclude items such as medical aid, DSTV, car & home insurance and similar comforts. I do have a paid off house and car which definitely helps.

The kicker for me at this stage is that I'm planning on immigrating. This essentially means cashing in all investments and other assets. It's been nigh on impossible to secure employment from SA so I would have to quit my job and move and then hope to secure employment once I had moved. What's worse is that it's going to cost me everything I've achieved in the past 8-9 years to do this but I'm banking that the outcome will ultimately be in my favour.

What really surprised me is how little I actually spend a month currently. I'm stopping the debit orders for my retirement annuities etc and seeing how the tax benefit is displaced etc and the contributions to other investments I save on average with the contribution about 72% on my gross salary.

I do earn a fairly decent salary so that kind of skews things but I definitely don't go without (eating out etc) but I've definitely found an equilibrium. Most things I see I don't actually want anymore. I've become very un-materialistic and only really spend large amounts of money on my gaming PC. I usually spend my free time studying, reading, playing games or doing stuff with the SO.

I believe when you start getting into the early retirement mindset things start to follow. You realise that the beauty of the world is around you rather than the expensive gimmicks that are marketed to you on a daily basis. Simple choices like buying clothes at Mr Price rather than Woolworths can, sometimes, go a long way and adopting an attitude of good value (money vs worth) rather than good perception (money vs third party perception) is key. I'm not saying look, act and adopt the lifestyle of a dirty hippie but cut down on the excess. You do need to reward yourself for the effort you put in everyday but why do you need a top of the range brand spanking new iPhone when a older model Samsung will do the job perfectly well?

Debt is what makes the world go around and that is what gets marketed to you each and every day. People don't realise it but something as simple as a cellphone contract for R1000 a month could easily ruin your life. Lose you job and how do you pay the balance of that contract if you don't have savings (which many people don't seem to have). Having an expensive cellphone contract taken out for 2 years is an accepted norm in life that no one thinks about twice yet you are basically signing a contract of debt to the tune of R24k without batting an eyelid. That's a simple example, think about all the other things you've signed yourself to pay monthly which are overpriced and potentially dangerous to your financial well being.
 

ronz91

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The kicker for me at this stage is that I'm planning on immigrating. This essentially means cashing in all investments and other assets. It's been nigh on impossible to secure employment from SA so I would have to quit my job and move and then hope to secure employment once I had moved. What's worse is that it's going to cost me everything I've achieved in the past 8-9 years to do this but I'm banking that the outcome will ultimately be in my favour.

What has been the attitude of employers overseas with regard to employing someone from SA?
 
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^^vampire^^

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What has been the attitude of employers overseas with regard to employing someone from SA?

99% of applications get ignored as I don't reside in Australia. I've "aussified" my resume through a professional agent as well as updated my linkedin profile so I'm 100% confident that I'm being overlooked because of location. I got one Skype interview with a company in Brisbane and they said I'm the ideal candidate but went with a guy already residing in Brisbane because they didn't want to be responsible for putting pressure on me to move. This after I said I have a 7 day notice period and could be there and ready to work in 7 days + plane flight and will pay all my own relocation costs.

Busy waiting on feedback for another position in Melbourne, the recruiter is sending my CV today. I have applied for about 100+ positions already. The recruiter told me software development is a tight market in Aus as many people do have the skills unlike here where I can easily walk into any job as there is not much competition.

Many lawyers, accountants and engineers are jobless at the moment in Aus as there is an excess of people with these skills so I guess at least I have a shot. I'm busy cashing in all my investments and middle of this year I'm thinking of moving there and looking for a job. Pretty scary as I've never been unemployed before coupled with the expensive cost of living (especially accommodation). An okay-ish 2 bedroom 2 bathroom place there can easily cost the equivalent of R25k+ per month. I'm probably going to use AirBNB and sleep on someones couch for $100 p/w :crying:
 

Frankie_Yale

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99% of applications get ignored as I don't reside in Australia. I've "aussified" my resume through a professional agent as well as updated my linkedin profile so I'm 100% confident that I'm being overlooked because of location. I got one Skype interview with a company in Brisbane and they said I'm the ideal candidate but went with a guy already residing in Brisbane because they didn't want to be responsible for putting pressure on me to move. This after I said I have a 7 day notice period and could be there and ready to work in 7 days + plane flight and will pay all my own relocation costs.

Busy waiting on feedback for another position in Melbourne, the recruiter is sending my CV today. I have applied for about 100+ positions already. The recruiter told me software development is a tight market in Aus as many people do have the skills unlike here where I can easily walk into any job as there is not much competition.

Many lawyers, accountants and engineers are jobless at the moment in Aus as there is an excess of people with these skills so I guess at least I have a shot. I'm busy cashing in all my investments and middle of this year I'm thinking of moving there and looking for a job. Pretty scary as I've never been unemployed before coupled with the expensive cost of living (especially accommodation). An okay-ish 2 bedroom 2 bathroom place there can easily cost the equivalent of R25k+ per month. I'm probably going to use AirBNB and sleep on someones couch for $100 p/w :crying:

why leave SA though?

200 years from now, no one will really care whether you left or not.
 

^^vampire^^

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why leave SA though?

200 years from now, no one will really care whether you left or not.

And neither will I, because I will be long dead and unable to care :p Caring if other people care about me leaving or not is probably right at the bottom of my list of what I care about to be honest and pretty ridiculous to base your own well-being on don't you think?

I'm tired of the crime, locking myself in behind a gate inside my house that is behind a door and a slamlock that is behind a security alarm that is behind a wall and another gate and some dogs. That and the currency turning to **** and the rampant racism etc etc. Getting out before toilet paper is more expensive than the currency :erm:
 
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