South Africans abroad miss home

[Sackboy]

I don't think it implies racism, as the avarage white person back then did enjoy certain privilages like job reservation, exclusive rights to land ownership, were not exposed to crime as the police was used as a tool of oppression.

Once you take away those privalages, things start to look less rosy, and you would be inclined to seek other places to live. It does not mean the people are racist, just if they said those are the reasons they are leaving, would make appear racist.

I don't think you should stereotype. Other races did own land, only it was in a specific area. The police were more efficient at fighting crime in those days. The crims were still there - they just didn't have as much opportunity. Oh, and there were a mix of races in the police and the army, in case you wondered.

 

[Sackboy]

Then again the president can always claim a state of emergency because of the violent crime in South Africa and get the SADF out in full force to patrol streets actively. I wouldn't mind driving in the street not having to worry about stopping at a stop street and being hijacked. Or being held at gunpoint while they ransack my house and keeping my friends held at gunpoint as well (both of which happened!)

Even if they decided to put a curfue out I wouldn't mind complying with that (of course you can then maybe get a special permit to be out that time of night etc).... sure we'll be looking more and more like a communist country, but I'm pretty damn well sure crime won't be a problem.

I wonder how many rapes/murders/hijackings and armed robbery will be reported come 2010...

Imposing a state of emergency would imply the ANC government had lost control. They prefer to just hide the statistics, while at the same time, not funding the police in the way they should.

 

[brixton tower]

I don't think you should stereotype. Other races did own land, only it was in a specific area. The police were more efficient at fighting crime in those days. The crims were still there - they just didn't have as much opportunity. Oh, and there were a mix of races in the police and the army, in case you wondered.

and everything was hunkydoree in white South Africa...gimme a break. One consequence of the new South Africa, and I suppose of globalisation, is that it has opened the doors of opportunity for (mostly)white South Africans. They've left but what grates a lot of politicians and I suspect (most) black South Africans is that these recent immigrants have had to rubbish the new dispensation at every turn whereas they were silent when the majority of South Africans were murdered in their homes and on the streets of the country.

SA is far from perfect and a lot of blame for recent fukk-ups can rightfully be laid at the door of the ANC and their culture which is not always conducive with democracy. Crime/EE is an easy when it comes to justifying ones hatred for the ANC and a new SA that no longer aspires to be the last outpost of Europe in the Dark Continent. Even if expats miss SA they'll be mightily disappointed to find that place, in the larger scheme of things, no longer exists.

 

[Frankie]

and everything was hunkydoree in white South Africa...gimme a break. One consequence of the new South Africa, and I suppose of globalisation, is that it has opened the doors of opportunity for (mostly)white South Africans. They've left but what grates a lot of politicians and I suspect (most) black South Africans is that these recent immigrants have had to rubbish the new dispensation at every turn whereas they were silent when the majority of South Africans were murdered in their homes and on the streets of the country.

SA is far from perfect and a lot of blame for recent fukk-ups can rightfully be laid at the door of the ANC and their culture which is not always conducive with democracy. Crime/EE is an easy when it comes to justifying ones hatred for the ANC and a new SA that no longer aspires to be the last outpost of Europe in the Dark Continent. Even if expats miss SA they'll be mightily disappointed to find that place, in the larger scheme of things, no longer exists.

"The doors" weren't opened as "a consequence of the new South Africa" - South African's went knocking on the doors because of the poor conditions in South Africa.

Many of these new immigrants lost a lot leaving after making a hard decision to emigrate in the best interests of their families safety and futures, and they have all the right to criticise the @ssholes that seem so hell-bent on running the place into the ground while lining their own pockets.

So what does the new SA aspire to now that it no longer aspires to be the last outpost of Europe? - Zim 2.0 ?

 

[Fudzy]

I think we all "miss" the ideals of what we left behind.

There are a lot of us who haven't left that are fortunate enough not to have experienced a situation that those who have left either having or feared having experienced.

 

[CyraxHB]

I don't think it implies racism, as the avarage white person back then did enjoy certain privilages like job reservation, exclusive rights to land ownership, were not exposed to crime as the police was used as a tool of oppression.

Once you take away those privalages, things start to look less rosy, and you would be inclined to seek other places to live. It does not mean the people are racist, just if they said those are the reasons they are leaving, would make appear racist.

So you are saying that whites are leaving because they no longer have the so-called privelages of apartheid?

Then what about the thousands of young whites who are leaving because they cant find jobs? We were little kids when apartheid ended and knew nothing about it yet we have to be exposed to racist AA laws.

 

[koffiejunkie]

We always assume the people leaving S.A. are middle-aged white folk who were of working age prior to '94. Wrong:

1. The oldest Saffa I know here is in his mid-30s, which means he was roughly school-leaving age in '94.

2. In the 4000 odd strong company where I work, Saffas make up roughly a quarter od the workforce. And guess what? Roughly half of them are NOT WHITE! When chatting to these guys (yes, we actually interact socially, would you believe!) over a pint and asking about their reasons for being here, the responce is near unanimous: here to stay, tired of the crime, tired of corruption, worried about their families' or future families' safety, worried about the way SA is headed, etc. No different than the stuff we whiteys complain about, really!

3. The majority of Saffas I know here, who are not of the gap/party year variety, are younger than 30 - again, people who were school kids in '94.

And by the way, why should people who have left not miss SA? Does it not remain the country of their birth, the place where they grew up, the place they're familiar with? Why do you think yourself worthy of judging? How many of you know the terror that consumes your heart and mind when someone shoves a gun in your face? How many of you have actually felt the cold barrel of a gun press aganst your skull? How many of have had to watch as a loved one is raped or brutally murdered? Do you really think you can comprehend the implications an consequences of living through such an ordeal? For many people, several times?

 

[Farquaon]

People who left SA and badmouth the place = Aliens in space

I hear about them, but I have not met one. All the Saffers I have met here in the USA have not badmouthed the place. I do not badmouth the place, nor does my family.

I do not promote SA either, as I did that a few times, many people want to go on a Safari, then some idiot in SA makes some ****ty comments or something happens, then I get told on how unsafe they would feel and all the bad things.

I miss SA, my wife is American, and she wants to go back to SA badly, but I refuse, a golf caddy of the right color became my boss, and I am not letting robbers rape my wife nor my 2 year old girl.

It is my responsibility to keep my family safe, and I took the "executive decision" in leaving SA, because there is no way I can look in my daughters blue eyes, and try to explain to her why she was raped, and have to be on medicine or even die.

Whoever sees this as a problem can go screw themselves. I am still a South African, and I will be buried there, but not killed there.

 

[marine1]

and I will be buried there, but not killed there.

Well said.

 

[guest2013-1]

and everything was hunkydoree in white South Africa...gimme a break. One consequence of the new South Africa, and I suppose of globalisation, is that it has opened the doors of opportunity for (mostly)white South Africans. They've left but what grates a lot of politicians and I suspect (most) black South Africans is that these recent immigrants have had to rubbish the new dispensation at every turn whereas they were silent when the majority of South Africans were murdered in their homes and on the streets of the country.

SA is far from perfect and a lot of blame for recent fukk-ups can rightfully be laid at the door of the ANC and their culture which is not always conducive with democracy. Crime/EE is an easy when it comes to justifying ones hatred for the ANC and a new SA that no longer aspires to be the last outpost of Europe in the Dark Continent. Even if expats miss SA they'll be mightily disappointed to find that place, in the larger scheme of things, no longer exists.

okay so if I get this right you're saying that the violent crime in South Africa is justified by the way whites murdered innocent black/coloured people during the apartheid era?

So its okay to not learn from history and just do the same thing over? More like a "do unto you as you did unto us" type scenario?

It's been 14 (fourteen) ****ing years now. These new immigrants are part of a new generation of people leaving this country. Go look at the average ages of these people leaving.

And you'll find that these people leaving did not condone apartheid either, they actually stuck around trying to make things work in this "new" South Africa.

Yet 14 (fourteen) ****ing years down the line you spew the same ****? SAME ****. When is this going to end?

The violent crime is NOT justified at all. People are leaving because they're afraid for their lives.... not because they were somehow apart of the apartheid era and got used to the "privilages" they had and are (suddenly, after almost God knows how long... wait... 14 years???!!!!!!) they're leaving because these "privilages" are being taken away??? WHAT??!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[MacNabs]

I do miss south africa. But even if i moved back i would still miss the same things. Most of my friends have left. The relaxed safe lifestyle is now gone. Kids cant have the same lifestyle today that we were fortunate to have had. Beaches are dirty and unsafe in sa today so are malls and most public places. All i miss is my remaining family, who are leaving sa too and the beauty of a once very beautiful country. I do miss the sa humor and the everyday contact with south africans. But thats the tradeoff for being able to give my kids a simular lifestyle to what i had as a kid. I can list double the things i dont miss as opposed to what i miss about sa today. And yes sa was really something back in the days. An icon of a country. Those days are long gone. Move on. Life is too short.

 

[marine1]

. Those days are long gone. Move on. Life is too short.

Exactly, and it is time to move on. Problem is that most will never be able to move on and they haver to find reason to stay here.
They will punt SA as long as possible, same as what happened in Zim.
People need to have reasons for their decisions.

 

[brixton tower]

"The doors" weren't opened as "a consequence of the new South Africa" - South African's went knocking on the doors because of the poor conditions in South Africa.

Many of these new immigrants lost a lot leaving after making a hard decision to emigrate in the best interests of their families safety and futures, and they have all the right to criticise the @ssholes that seem so hell-bent on running the place into the ground while lining their own pockets.

So what does the new SA aspire to now that it no longer aspires to be the last outpost of Europe? - Zim 2.0 ?

What poor conditions? You can still drink water from a tap, you can still drive down most highway(with the exception of the EC) and not encounter potholes.

Yes, crime is bad...I should know after my car was first broken into and then stolen last year. Thankfully I've never felt the cold steel of gun against my chest. But its way too soon to write off SA and sometimes I sense that (some) YT's are egging on the current lot running the ANC in a game of "how low can you go"...which always ends up with comparisons to Zim when the history and political development of the two countries differ so vastly.

a golf caddy of the right color became my boss, and I am not letting robbers rape my wife nor my 2 year old girl.

Probably a good thing that you left....A golf caddy of the right colour becoming your boss...FFS, so are you telling us that someone without en education became your boss on the strength of his caddying abilities? America will in the next couple of decades become more frustrating as minorities become the majority- where will you move to then? Deal with the change.

okay so if I get this right you're saying that the violent crime in South Africa is justified by the way whites murdered innocent black/coloured people during the apartheid era?

Not at all, what I'm saying is that its always eye-opening whenever there's a debate on immigration and crime is rightfully mentioned as a "pull factor". Its just that for many of these people they were quite happy to sit it out in the 80s when black people were killed in the townships. Now that crime has hit their doorsteps there's all this talk of "SA going down the drain" and becoming the next Zim. Well, you can check the crime stats and townships, by large, are still the most violent places to live.

 

[marine1]

What poor conditions? You can still drink water from a tap, you can still drive down most highway(with the exception of the EC) and not encounter potholes.

Do you live in JHB? Most of the roads here are a mess, only now being fixed for 2010. What happens after that? By the way the water situation in SA is on the brink of collapse. That is a fact and we all know what happened to the guy who spilled the beans, he was fired.

Yes, crime is bad

No, crime is out of control and we are in an almost state of war where there are shootouts daily at shopping centres and on our streets.

Probably a good thing that you left....A golf caddy of the right colour becoming your boss...FFS, so are you telling us that someone without en education became your boss on the strength of his caddying abilities? America will in the next couple of decades become more frustrating as minorities become the majority- where will you move to then? Deal with the change.

Deal with the change? How exactly? The so called change has sent us back 100 yrs.

Not at all, what I'm saying is that its always eye-opening whenever there's a debate on immigration and crime is rightfully mentioned as a "pull factor". Its just that for many of these people they were quite happy to sit it out in the 80s when black people were killed in the townships. Now that crime has hit their doorsteps there's all this talk of "SA going down the drain" and becoming the next Zim. Well, you can check the crime stats and townships, by large, are still the most violent places to live.

I wonder if you have ever had the good fortune of living overseas and really experiencing freedom to move around without having to worry about your safety, maybe then you would understand how terrible things really are here.

 

[DagegeN]

I wonder if you have ever had the good fortune of living overseas and really experiencing freedom to move around without having to worry about your safety, maybe then you would understand how terrible things really are here.

Oh i have spent some time in Germany and i can truly say it was amazing, to be able to walk on the streets going home after a joll at 3am or 4am and not having that feeling "i am going to get robbed at gunpoint for my cellphone any moment". And to be the only person in a bus or tram going home and not feel that some schmuck is going to maul you.

Things work there, if the bus is 5 mins late you start to get worried, if the train is delayed 10mins you get 50% refund.

We here in SA are living in "golden cages"
We are a country that is at war with itself

 

[marine1]

We here in SA are living in "golden cages"
We are a country that is at war with itself

We are like frogs being slowly boiled, so we dont feel it.

 

[timmy52]

wow

 

[marine1]

wow

?

 

[Frankie]

What poor conditions? You can still drink water from a tap, you can still drive down most highway(with the exception of the EC) and not encounter potholes.

You seem to have very low expectations or live with blinkers on.

Yes, crime is bad...I should know after my car was first broken into and then stolen last year. Thankfully I've never felt the cold steel of gun against my chest. But its way too soon to write off SA and sometimes I sense that (some) YT's are egging on the current lot running the ANC in a game of "how low can you go"...which always ends up with comparisons to Zim when the history and political development of the two countries differ so vastly.

So you're quite prepared to wait for your home to be invaded, and your family molested before deciding enough is enough - the onus will be on you to explain to your family that you chose to risk their safety and well being.

Probably a good thing that you left....A golf caddy of the right colour becoming your boss...FFS, so are you telling us that someone without en education became your boss on the strength of his caddying abilities? America will in the next couple of decades become more frustrating as minorities become the majority- where will you move to then? Deal with the change.



Not at all, what I'm saying is that its always eye-opening whenever there's a debate on immigration and crime is rightfully mentioned as a "pull factor". Its just that for many of these people they were quite happy to sit it out in the 80s when black people were killed in the townships. Now that crime has hit their doorsteps there's all this talk of "SA going down the drain" and becoming the next Zim. Well, you can check the crime stats and townships, by large, are still the most violent places to live.

Crime is only one of many factors - collapsing infrastructure (hospitals, Home Affairs, policing, licensing, roads, ........) and financial investments.
The poor pensioners in Zim 1.0 didn't see it coming - their life savings and pensions reduced to nothing in a very short time.

Many people that now consider leaving were quite happy with the transition of 1994 and welcomed the "reconciliation" of the rainbow nation, but the ANC thugs have eroded all such hopes.

 

[marine1]

Africa is for dictators, it is the African way and the next one is Zuma if he becomes president.
In 10-15 years we will see the effects of this African way of running countries like their very own bank accounts.
We have already seen it happening but I think we will see it on a massive scale soon.
We are only seeing money spent now as it has to be done for 2010.
When before this did you see construction of the roads and upliftment of the infrastructure?
Not since the ANC took control have I seen any improvement.
All we have seen in the ANC rule is massive corruption, almost total collapse of gvt departments, increase in racism on both sides.