South Africans abroad miss home

[bwana]

I wonder if you have ever had the good fortune of living overseas and really experiencing freedom to move around without having to worry about your safety, maybe then you would understand how terrible things really are here.

Having lived overseas most of my life I always find that argument a bit weak. Just like here there are places there where you feel safe and those you dont. Where I went to college (in NYC) you would not want to walk the streets alone at night, yet here I often walk to and from work with my gear over my shoulder - my only fear is getting hit by one of your awful drivers.

My dad is always quick to point out that my kids are growing up in a lot better environment than I was at their age.

BTW - I'm not saying that crime doesnt exist here and that there aren't problems - I read the papers like everyone.

 

[marine1]

Having lived overseas most of my life I always find that argument a bit weak. Just like here there are places there where you feel safe and those you dont. Where I went to college (in NYC) you would not want to walk the streets alone at night, yet here I often walk to and from work with my gear over my shoulder - my only fear is getting hit by one of your awful drivers.

When was that Bwana? I lived in the US and travelled to New York many times and never felt as unsafe as I do here. There is a cop everywhere in New York, maybe not in your time there but definitely in the last 5-10 years.

My dad is always quick to point out that my kids are growing up in a lot better environment than I was at their age.

Where is your dad? Does he know what is happening here, in reality and not from what he sees on tv.

BTW - I'm not saying that crime doesnt exist here and that there aren't problems - I read the papers like everyone.

reading the papers and being a victim or having loved ones being victims is very different

 

[charlie_82]

I love being a South African. I love our culture & our diversity... Our heritage & our beautiful landscapes...
And even though I realise that leaving isn't what's best for SA, we are being ruined by incompetent leaders. And I will leave, the first chance I get.
I want to start to family but I refuse to have children here. I look at my nieces & nephews & my friends kids and it's a sad sad thing watching a mum/dad trying to explain to a child why they can't go play at the park across the road. Or why they can't ride their bike down the street...
No young innocent life should have to be taught to be suspicious & weary to this extent.

And when I leave, I will miss home. I'll miss all the landmarks that remind me of my childhood. And my friends & family. But I'll be grateful that my child won't ever have to know that he/she would've had to be looking over his/her shoulder every 5 minutes.

I don't condone the apartheid era, we did a lot of fscked up shyte. But the fact is, that even tho I'm Indian & was forced to grow up in a sh*tty neighbourhood & go to a crappy school & I wasn't allowed to stand under the covered bus shelter, I never had to look over my shoulder. And riding my bike, as a girl, to a shop 5km from home, going through vacant velds was never a problem.

It's like we're in a six of one, half a dozen of the other type scenario.
We had a lot of things wrong during the apartheid era and a lot right too. That's still the same now, except we have different things wrong/right.

I can't say that, for me, leaving isn't about politics. Because I do believe it's out govt that's allowed our crime to get this bad. But the crime really is my motivation for wanting to leave

 

[Frankie]

Having lived overseas most of my life I always find that argument a bit weak. Just like here there are places there where you feel safe and those you dont. Where I went to college (in NYC) you would not want to walk the streets alone at night, yet here I often walk to and from work with my gear over my shoulder - my only fear is getting hit by one of your awful drivers.

My dad is always quick to point out that my kids are growing up in a lot better environment than I was at their age.

BTW - I'm not saying that crime doesnt exist here and that there aren't problems - I read the papers like everyone.

bwana, one major factor in your comparison is that in the US you could avoid the unsavoury areas and doing so feel considerably safe, but here you always have the fear of those unsavoury types coming into your area/home unchallenged and inflicting hell on you and your dear family, and although it doesn't change such a tragedy, you can rest assured the perpetrators will not be caught and punished.

 

[bwana]

bwana, one major factor in your comparison is that in the US you could avoid the unsavoury areas and doing so feel considerably safe, but here you always have the fear of those unsavoury types coming into your area/home unchallenged and inflicting hell on you and your dear family, and although it doesn't change such a tragedy, you can rest assured the perpetrators will not be caught and punished.

On the contrary - we couldn't avoid them.

We also don't live with the same fear you seem to - I wouldnt live here if we did.

 

[charlie_82]

Having lived overseas most of my life I always find that argument a bit weak. Just like here there are places there where you feel safe and those you dont. Where I went to college (in NYC) you would not want to walk the streets alone at night

Absolutely true, but I'm sure this would be the case almost anywhere in the world. The difference is in SA now, you have to watch your back in the suburbs, in town, in the mornings etc etc... And going for a walk down the street after dark is just plain suicidal

 

[marine1]

Funny, in almost 2 years in living in Los Angeles, I never had one issue. In 7 yrs back in SA, I cannot even recount the amount of issues I have encountered, too many to even think about.

 

[bwana]

When was that Bwana? I lived in the US and travelled to New York many times and never felt as unsafe as I do here. There is a cop everywhere in New York, maybe not in your time there but definitely in the last 5-10 years.

You can deny there are unsafe areas there if you want but that wasn't my reality.

Where is your dad? Does he know what is happening here, in reality and not from what he sees on tv.

My dad? He's retired to Pa now and travels down to see his grandkids every year for a couple months at a time. His opinion is a bit more informed than the casual tourist visiting the US.

reading the papers and being a victim or having loved ones being victims is very different

No kidding.

Funny, in almost 2 years in living in Los Angeles, I never had one issue. In 7 yrs back in SA, I cannot even recount the amount of issues I have encountered, too many to even think about.

And in over a decade here I've had my car broken into once - I'm pretty sure it was the ex expressing a bit of rage though

 

[marine1]

You can deny there are unsafe areas there if you want but that wasn't my reality.

Not what I said, yes there are unsafe areas in the US obviously but there are also very safe areas. There were certain areas I would not go as I am white, such as Compton, etc. It was very dangerous there as these areas are like townships I suppose, I actually got lost there one day and was warned to leave by a passing cop who offered me directions.
The thing is that in SA, where are these so called "safe" areas? There are none. Every single place in SA has some level of danger.

I'm pretty sure it was the ex expressing a bit of rage though

 

[DagegeN]

......And in over a decade here I've had my car broken into once..... -

Dude some people are just lucky to escape these acts of violence.
My brother has been held @ gun point about 6 times in the last decade luckily came out with only a few minor injuries.

And i on the other hand came out with no personal attacks, but house got ransacked once car got stolen twice car got broken into once. Crime is there it's everywhere but some are just lucky not to encounter these animals.

Even though i have a child on the way i will want to stay here in MY country of birth, and even the wife said that we should stay longer, but that said in my last 2 years in JHB i have been in a "safe" area.

 

[brixton tower]

I wonder if you have ever had the good fortune of living overseas and really experiencing freedom to move around without having to worry about your safety, maybe then you would understand how terrible things really are here.

Currently living and working in the Philippines, before I came here I was in Thailand and spent some time in Europe.

You seem to have very low expectations or live with blinkers on.

Not low expectations at all and I certainly can see through the BS that politicians spew around election time. I want posters to be honest because through that you can spare yourself a lot of heartache. Services have gone "down" because this country is no longer merely catering for the minority white population and thus the privilidges they had disappeared with the new South Africa...some realised the game was up in the 90s others stuck it out hoping they would still be able to cling to privilege albeit not subsidised by the State. All I can say is that we can either go the route of living in fortresses( as they do in many Third World cities) or deal with some of the inequality in our society.

 

[Claymore]

Do you live in JHB? Most of the roads here are a mess, only now being fixed for 2010.

Do you live in a different JHB to the one I'm in? I think JHB roads are generally pretty good; the worst I can think of are in the Rosebank suburbs, where they *really* could do with resurfacing.

 

[marine1]

You kidding right? Have you driven in Sunninghill? Sandton ? Midrand residential areas?

 

[Syndyre]

One consequence of the new South Africa, and I suppose of globalisation, is that it has opened the doors of opportunity for (mostly)white South Africans. They've left but what grates a lot of politicians and I suspect (most) black South Africans is that these recent immigrants have had to rubbish the new dispensation at every turn whereas they were silent when the majority of South Africans were murdered in their homes and on the streets of the country.

The doors of opportunity were opened by people's skills, talent etc. The ANC just seems intolerant of any criticism whatsoever.

I do miss south africa. But even if i moved back i would still miss the same things. Most of my friends have left. The relaxed safe lifestyle is now gone. Kids cant have the same lifestyle today that we were fortunate to have had. Beaches are dirty and unsafe in sa today so are malls and most public places. All i miss is my remaining family, who are leaving sa too and the beauty of a once very beautiful country. I do miss the sa humor and the everyday contact with south africans. But thats the tradeoff for being able to give my kids a simular lifestyle to what i had as a kid. I can list double the things i dont miss as opposed to what i miss about sa today. And yes sa was really something back in the days. An icon of a country. Those days are long gone. Move on. Life is too short.

Exactly, the place people miss doesn't exist anymore. And before someone makes a stupid comment I'm not referring to Apartheid.

What poor conditions? You can still drink water from a tap, you can still drive down most highway(with the exception of the EC) and not encounter potholes.

Yes, crime is bad...I should know after my car was first broken into and then stolen last year. Thankfully I've never felt the cold steel of gun against my chest. But its way too soon to write off SA and sometimes I sense that (some) YT's are egging on the current lot running the ANC in a game of "how low can you go"...which always ends up with comparisons to Zim when the history and political development of the two countries differ so vastly.



Probably a good thing that you left....A golf caddy of the right colour becoming your boss...FFS, so are you telling us that someone without en education became your boss on the strength of his caddying abilities? America will in the next couple of decades become more frustrating as minorities become the majority- where will you move to then? Deal with the change.



Not at all, what I'm saying is that its always eye-opening whenever there's a debate on immigration and crime is rightfully mentioned as a "pull factor". Its just that for many of these people they were quite happy to sit it out in the 80s when black people were killed in the townships. Now that crime has hit their doorsteps there's all this talk of "SA going down the drain" and becoming the next Zim. Well, you can check the crime stats and townships, by large, are still the most violent places to live.

What poor conditions??? Crime, Eskom's load shedding, declining public services, badly maintained infrastructure, racist government policies, the future president calling for his machine gun. A lot of people are also leaving in anticipation of things getting worse

Obviously people are going to be more concerned about crime that affects them, that's human nature. Lots of countries have bad crime rates in certain areas, in SA its now most of the country, I don't know anybody in the UK, US, NZ, Aus etc. who sits behind high walls with electric fencing and panic buttons.

Many people that now consider leaving were quite happy with the transition of 1994 and welcomed the "reconciliation" of the rainbow nation, but the ANC thugs have eroded all such hopes.

Exactly.

 

[Claymore]

You kidding right? Have you driven in Sunninghill? Sandton ? Midrand residential areas?

I'll agree, the one road in Sunninghill (on the northern side) is a bit rough; the rest are generally OK though (or really nice, like the big new east-west road). I work in Sandton, no problems there that I've noticed, apart from the road closure due to Gautrain. And I haven't noticed an issue in Midrand except in the very new residential areas that aren't tarred yet (like parts of Carlswald and Blue Hills).

The vast majority of JHB is just fine.

 

[Frankie]

Currently living and working in the Philippines, before I came here I was in Thailand and spent some time in Europe.



Not low expectations at all and I certainly can see through the BS that politicians spew around election time. I want posters to be honest because through that you can spare yourself a lot of heartache. Services have gone "down" because this country is no longer merely catering for the minority white population and thus the privilidges they had disappeared with the new South Africa...some realised the game was up in the 90s others stuck it out hoping they would still be able to cling to privilege albeit not subsidised by the State. All I can say is that we can either go the route of living in fortresses( as they do in many Third World cities) or deal with some of the inequality in our society.

You don't think that it would be wise to build on what the evil white colonialists left behind, instead of allowing everything to degrade for everyone - why not do the wise thing and improve the lot for everyone.

What inequality are you referring to, and how do you propose we deal with it?
What has living in a fortress got to do with inequality?

 

[marine1]

BT you seems to really have an issue with white people. Am I wrong?

 

[jvk]

Roads are still pretty bad!

Do you live in a different JHB to the one I'm in? I think JHB roads are generally pretty good; the worst I can think of are in the Rosebank suburbs, where they *really* could do with resurfacing.

i have to disagree i think jhb roads are very bad ...some parts of the eastrand are terrible and midrand (vorna valley) is also very bad IMHO ....

i can't really complain though...i love driving and wont be put off easily from travelling around jhb...

on another note...It's nearly christmas and the start of the 2nd test against aus...this year has been bad for alot of us but i have a feeling 2009 is gonna be a blast !!!

 

[Lord Anubis]

If your car breaks down in SA and you are stranded or you get a flat..it could easily be a death sentence! That stresses me out cos I ride a lot!

 

[MacNabs]

If your car breaks down in SA and you are stranded or you get a flat..it could easily be a death sentence! That stresses me out cos I ride a lot!

I use to tell my wife that if she should get a flat, she should continue to drive (slowly) to safety, even if it meant driving on the rim. One will be surprised at how far a car can go without a tyre. Yes, you wreck your cars wheel and probably the suspension, but what are the alternatives? Sit and wait on the side of the road like a sitting duck?