South Africans should learn to speak each other's languages, says KZN artist

[zolly]

South Africans should learn to speak each other's languages, says KZN artist | News24

KwaZulu-Natal artist Farrèll Drew is one of many South Africans who enjoy amapiano music but one of the few who can rap to DJ Maphorisa's verse in the hit song 'Izolo'.

www.news24.com

He's not wrong. Trevor Noah discusses how we relate to each other through language in Born a Crime. Here's a breakdown on the discussion by another writer.

The Power of Language: How Trevor Noah’s “Born A Crime” Teaches Humans How We Connect with One…

The power of language gives us the ability to connect with others and have control in people’s lives. In Born A Crime by Trevor Noah, Noah…

medium.com

 

[surface]

It is weird that english speakers have trouble with afrikaans, but afrikaans speakers in general don't have issues with english. They aren't that dissimilar, with a few exceptions they have overlapping rules, in many instances afrikaans just straight up stole words from english and changed the spelling. active = aktief, changing the c with double or singular K. activity= aktiewetyd, activist = aktevis activist-ism = aktevisme. Pretty strange.

I suspect you mean English speakers should be able to read a bit of afrikaans. For example, take 2 headlines on nuus24 just now.

I have been in SA for a while so I would read these 2 as below. I am sure you all would do way better than me.
Kragkrisis: Geen kitsoplossing, maar daar is vordering, sê Cyril
?? crisis: no ??? but there is ??? says Cyril - he probably says there is no solution but there is hope ?

Pond ná ‘mini-begroting’ op laagste vlak teenoor dollar sedert 1985
Pond after mini-?? on last ?? ?? dollar ??? 1985 - probably pound last seen at such low levels to dollar since 1985?

But, if you speak at usual speed, chances are that I will pick up same words I picked up during reading but because speed of speaking is faster (news reader), I wouldn't be able to construct a meaning out of it.

 

[PrimeSteak]

I have been in SA for a while so I would read these 2 as below. I am sure you all would do way better than me.
Kragkrisis: Geen kitsoplossing, maar daar is vordering, sê Cyril
?? crisis: no ??? but there is ??? says Cyril - he probably says there is no solution but there is hope ?

Almost but not quite.

Translation: Electricity crisis: "No quick solution, but there is progress", says Cyril.

Pond ná ‘mini-begroting’ op laagste vlak teenoor dollar sedert 1985
Pond after mini-?? on last ?? ?? dollar ??? 1985 - probably pound last seen at such low levels to dollar since 1985?

On the nosey.

Translation: Pound is at its lowest level to the dollar since 1985, after "mini-budget".

 

[My_King]

Ohayō baka

There I have done my part

 

[konfab]

It is weird that english speakers have trouble with afrikaans, but afrikaans speakers in general don't have issues with english. They aren't that dissimilar, with a few exceptions they have overlapping rules, in many instances afrikaans just straight up stole words from english and changed the spelling. active = aktief, changing the c with double or singular K. activity= aktiewetyd, activist = aktevis activist-ism = aktevisme. Pretty strange.

Disagree there. You go really into wors country and your ability to find someone who speaks the King's English diminishes very rapidly.

As for the "rules", also disagree there, there are exceptions built upon exceptions. Languages are not logical (pretty much by their definition as humans are not logical either). This is why rules-based machine translation never worked very well. Machine translation only started getting good once they started giving computers the space to create arbitrarily complex rules to deal with languages. Which funnily enough turns into its own language.
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...i-invents-its-own-language-to-translate-with/

 

[HunterNW]

Ohayō baka

There I have done my part

Muito obrigado.

Done.

Afrikaans nou dankie.

 

[JuliusSeizure]

Good chances because people hardly speak pure afrikaans these days. I am not saying this - I heard it from nearly all my afrikaans colleagues that are over 45. Same is true of many other languages of course - a liberal sprinkling of English makes you understand any language because they are speaking English. LOL.

You can't seem to read it because writers (news e.g.) still write mostly pure afrikaans.

Pretty much all languages evolve and its neither good nor bad, just to be expected.

The Zulu and Xhosa spoken by youth today is also different from what rural old folks speak.

 

[JuliusSeizure]

It is weird that english speakers have trouble with afrikaans, but afrikaans speakers in general don't have issues with english. They aren't that dissimilar, with a few exceptions they have overlapping rules, in many instances afrikaans just straight up stole words from english and changed the spelling. active = aktief, changing the c with double or singular K. activity= aktiewetyd, activist = aktevis activist-ism = aktevisme. Pretty strange.

Its probably due to exposure. Very few people who live in urban areas of SA have trouble learning English because of how mainstream it is regardless of home language.

I had to use Afrikaans once to people who could not speak English when we went into a poorer coloured township in Eastern Cape. Similarly, Im sure a lot of Afrikaans speakers in rural areas dont speak English or are not fluent.

 

[TelkomUseless]

Will learning different language help us to understand why ANC voters approve of corruption, non service delivery , load shedding etc. by keep voting ANC ?

Its a joke! KZN = ZUMA = Corruption ...

 

[PrimeSteak]

Will learning different language help us to understand why ANC voters approve of corruption, non service delivery , load shedding etc. by keep voting ANC ?

What the hell does the ANC have to do with learning one of SA's 11 languages?

Look, I also despise the ANC, but this is a reach and a half...

 

[TelkomUseless]

What the hell does the ANC have to do with learning one of SA's 11 languages?

Look, I also despise the ANC, but this is a reach and a half...

It was a sarcastic joke . KZN= ZUMA= Corruption HQ... etc

 

[PrimeSteak]

It was a sarcastic joke . KZN= ZUMA= Corruption HQ... etc

I see you edited it.

I get it now.

 

[Polymathic]

I suspect you mean English speakers should be able to read a bit of afrikaans. For example, take 2 headlines on nuus24 just now.

I have been in SA for a while so I would read these 2 as below. I am sure you all would do way better than me.
Kragkrisis: Geen kitsoplossing, maar daar is vordering, sê Cyril
?? crisis: no ??? but there is ??? says Cyril - he probably says there is no solution but there is hope ?

Pond ná ‘mini-begroting’ op laagste vlak teenoor dollar sedert 1985
Pond after mini-?? on last ?? ?? dollar ??? 1985 - probably pound last seen at such low levels to dollar since 1985?

But, if you speak at usual speed, chances are that I will pick up same words I picked up during reading but because speed of speaking is faster (news reader), I wouldn't be able to construct a meaning out of it.

Would work better if you used everyday sentences.

 

[wizardofid]

Disagree there. You go really into wors country and your ability to find someone who speaks the King's English diminishes very rapidly.

As for the "rules", also disagree there, there are exceptions built upon exceptions. Languages are not logical (pretty much by their definition as humans are not logical either). This is why rules-based machine translation never worked very well. Machine translation only started getting good once they started giving computers the space to create arbitrarily complex rules to deal with languages. Which funnily enough turns into its own language.
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...i-invents-its-own-language-to-translate-with/

You are clearly mistaken there, times have changed with the exception of some geographical(french/Latin) areas, the majority(latin) is well versed with english vernacular(latin), I reside in the freestate province(french) of all geographical areas(latin) and a rural(french/latin)(you can see where this is going with regards to english, it isn't as pretty and well formed and constructed as afrikaans, for the most part, it is ugly and unnecessarily fat and bloated, if wasn't for common sense, modern english would have been a cluster fk of note) area far removed at that. With the general populous having fundamental access online at their disposal, people are no longer isolated in their communities and social cliques(french) as a whole. It has definitely broaden the general exposure and adoption in general. You're more likely to find an english person that doesn't understand afrikaans, compared to an afrikaans person not understanding english. While there may be instances of broken english, it is more likely the same person would have no problem with reading/writing in general. Broken english doesn't automatically mean this person has no comprehension, which you seem be alluring to.

I am no expert, I am dyslexic and hearing impaired, which is basically a double whammy, especially with pronunciation of some difficult english words even to some extend with afrikaans, but as a afrikaans speaker I find it pretty hard to believe that an average South African english speaking person is unable to grasp the much simpler afrikaans language in general, considering they aren't too dissimilar, with very few exceptions and less rules. In my personal opinion is it more a matter of I don't care to or don't want to.

Fact of the matter is, that it isn't dissimilar, especially with regards to rules, in fact it has less rules and much easier to understand, considering both are of Germanic origins and in many instances both local dialects of afrikaans and english have borrowed words from one another. As the article points out there are very few exceptions more often than not, you can directly translate afrikaans into english and vice versa, with little or no sentence reconstruction, verb conjugations being the only troublesome area, considering afrikaans entirely omits it, the same can't be said for dutch, german or languages in that general area of Europe. Verb usage is pretty much the same, with the exception of past, present and future tense as mentioned, it is also phonetic, which makes it magnitudes easier.

With afrikaans I will have a much easier time learning other languages as well, especially dutch, and Germanic languages in general due to similar word usages, but their verb usage is slightly different, in that verbs are used and placed differently so direct translation will make you sound like yoda. "Ride I have" as an example. Japanese also has a similar approach, ironically an afrikaans person will have a much easier time with japanese as well.

The only bothersome rules as mentioned are with past, present and future tense, and lack of verb conjugations, once you have that sorted it is more or less the same.

So considering I am fluent in both afrikaans and english with some issues, what is your excuse. ? It is something I don't quite understand how in general afrikaans people are so much better at a second language. It doesn't compute, if you were born and raised in this country as an english speaker you shouldn't have an issue at all. Considering that most sotho first language natives in my area, know both english and afrikaans, reading and writing maybe on the rusty side, but you you will be able to converse in either just fine.

Afrikaans rules!

After the scandalous revelation of Afrikaans' father, another breaking news follow. As it was recognized as a language only in 1925, Afrikaans turns to be the youngest language in

langventure.mystrikingly.com

 

[TheChamp]

Afrikaans like Russian sounds cool when you swear in it. Ive seen guys who hardly even speak Afrikaans suddenly start speaking it when angry and drunk.

It used to be very fashionable to speak in Afrikaans when demonstrating your knowledge of some trade or ambag as it was called.

I had a family member who claimed to be skilled in 7 trades, a Cosmik Debris kind of a character, while working on something with him he would start speaking very loudly in Afrikaans and barking instructions even when you knew what you were doing, of course in the process not forgetting to mention all his 7 trades while regaling you with his legendary stories. Die son drink water was one of his favourite phrases.

 

[Okty]

It is weird that english speakers have trouble with afrikaans, but afrikaans speakers in general don't have issues with english. They aren't that dissimilar, with a few exceptions they have overlapping rules, in many instances afrikaans just straight up stole words from english and changed the spelling. active = aktief, changing the c with double or singular K. activity= aktiewetyd, activist = aktevis activist-ism = aktevisme. Pretty strange.

Afrikaans 'stole' from English, eh?

Your example is a bit topsy-turvy.

Let me explain, Afrikaans is just a derivative of Dutch. Lets see what those 'English' words are in Dutch then Afrikaans.

English - Dutch - Afrikaans
Active - actief- aktief
Activity - activiteit - aktiwiteit
Activist - activist- Aktivis
Activism - activisme - aktivisme

So yes, one thing that is right is that Afrikaans dropped the 'ke' sound from the Latin alphabet, i.e. c, and just used the 'ka' sound from the Latin alphabet, i.e k.

Although, in this case your example word is a bit moot, since it is Latin based (root word 'actus' if I remember correctly)

Basically, there is also a lot of English words with Dutch origins (of course, both languages have also been influenced by Latin words etc).

Some interesting reading:

List of English words of Dutch origin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In many cases the loanword has assumed a meaning substantially different from its Dutch forebear. Some English words have been borrowed directly from Dutch. But typically, English spellings of Dutch loanwords suppress combinations of vowels of the original word which do not exist in English and replace them with existing vowel combinations respectively. For example, the oe in koekje or koekie becomes oo in cookie,[2] the ij (considered a vowel in Dutch) and the ui in vrijbuiter becomes ee and oo in freebooter, the aa in baas becomes o in boss, the oo in stoof becomes o in stove.

As languages, English and Dutch are both West Germanic, and descend further back from the common ancestor language Proto-Germanic. Their relationship however, has been obscured by the lexical influence of Old Norse as a consequence of Viking expansion from the 9th till the 11th century, and Norman French, as a consequence of the Norman conquest of England in 1066. Because of their close common relationship - in addition to the large Latin and French vocabulary both languages possess - many English words are essentially identical to their Dutch lexical counterparts, either in spelling (plant, begin, fruit), pronunciation (pool = pole, boek = book, diep = deep), or both (offer, hard, lip) or as false friends (ramp = disaster, roof = robbery, mop = joke). These cognates or in other ways related words are

Many English people might be shocked how their language was spoken (Old English).

 

[Oldfut]

It used to be very fashionable to speak in Afrikaans when demonstrating your knowledge of some trade or ambag as it was called.

I had a family member who claimed to be skilled in 7 trades, a Cosmik Debris kind of a character, while working on something with him he would start speaking very loudly in Afrikaans and barking instructions even when you knew what you were doing, of course in the process not forgetting to mention all his 7 trades while regaling you with his legendary stories. Die son drink water was one of his favourite phrases.

Hmmm, this does sound familiar because I know of a way to learn "barking" Afrikaans that is pretty much guaranteed BUT, always a BUT. It takes two years of your life, virtually unpaid, you get messed around as well, you do learn some other dubious "skills", could be hazardous to life and limb and very little leave. For some, a smattering of Portuguese was also picked up.

Not recommended and may now be discontinued.

 

[ForceFate]

You say that as if it is just a matter of effort and not a matter of ability.

It's not ability. You listen to conversations and after a while, certain things start making sense. Of course the guy was fluent in multiple languages thus, would switch languages when communicating with different people (isiZulu, xiTsonga, English, Afrikaans, sePedi (Northern Sotho) and could converse in siSwati and isiXhosa though he'd often revert to isiZulu.

I spent my entire school career working my hardest at Afrikaans and I can barely say a few phrases. I had hours of 3rd and 4th year lectures in Afrikaans and still didn't pick up anything other than a bit of spelling relating to electrical engineering. I married into a very Afrikaans family and despite hearing the cackling of Afrikaans every weekend, I still am about as hopeless at the language as I was when I left school.

I don't demand that everyone in society has the same level of math and science that I have because I know some people won't be able to do it, so why should I be expected to have the same level of multilingualism as everyone else?

I'm not demanding it. I also find learning new languages a little difficult. At the end of the day, it's up to the individual.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

It was mentioned some time back that the ANC actually only wanted to make English the official language but the same businessmen that proposed for BEE to be established wanted 11. BEE was also never the brain-child of the ANC contrary to what some on Mybb would want you to believe.

Correct. BEE was the brainchild of the Afrikaner Broederbond to save their sorry asres from being nationalised while throwing the people that built their companies to what they were under the bus.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

It also depends on the teacher you have. I did well in Afrikaans for the most part in ended with a strong B in matric because I ended up with a new teacher who did not have enough time to take a liking to me. Had it been my Grade 10-11 teacher, I'd have got an A.

How? Matric papers are marked anonymously and you have a matric number you write on your paper. Your teacher does not mark your matric paper for the exact reason of maybe not liking you...