South Africa's brain drain - A first-hand account of emigration

[skimread]

What would drive a professional to choose a remote freelancing site over emigration?

Companies do not offer sponsorship easily. They first want you to have the right to work in that country before they offer you a job. It's a chicken and egg situation.

People make as if it is easy. It isn't.

 

[HavocXphere]

Not sure that's a particularly representative example. CAs moving between big audit firms have it much easier emigration wise

 

[envo]

I have to echo what happened to "Ryan". Recruitment in South Africa is quite slow, no communication and sometimes feel like you have to beg for an interview and constantly follow up with the recruiter and/or HR representative to make sure they received/reviewed your application (almost like when trying to rent a property, chasing the rental agent constantly)

Overseas? Insanely easy to get an interview because they actually review your application and give feedback. Other than a few hiccups, I was able to get a job offer within a few weeks, whereas several South African companies were still "going through the process"

Also tried staying in South Africa, but it was a real PITA just finding a new position with someone that has 20 years of experience.

I also believe the brain drain already happened, and the story of Ryan is just young people realizing there isn't any opportunity for them to get a job/grow where they are now.

 

[WollieVerstege]

Friend of mine got retrenched in Feb and started applying for other jobs. 5 months later in August he started his new job.
However, some of those companies he applied to in May and June are inly now starting to reply, usually the generic FOff

 

[envo]

In a post Covid world you suddenly have everyone applying for jobs. People are changing careers and spending the year studying new fields that allow working from home. The competition is tough.

If there was so much discrimination against whites in SA then why aren't all the white people on remote freelancing sites?

This has been happening pre-covid too. Remote/Freelancing from South Africa (keyword Africa) is also very difficult to find a job for considering there's a lot of people who just equates Africa with Scam. I was told very bluntly, even though I'm on the same timezone that they prefer, because I'm not somewhere in Europe, I won't qualify for the remote position.

Freelancing is another crap thing as work isn't constant and it's hard going from x k/month to 0 k/month until you get enough work/reputation online to actually get work, and that's IF they pay you. Did that for 3 years (had savings) and the amount of people who signed a valid retainer contract and agreed to x amount of work a month that DIDN'T pay up and just broke the contract, did that anyway because they knew you wouldn't be able to afford lawyers to take them to court and the amount is too much for small claims court.

I'd rather just do a job, get paid my monthly salary and not worry about remote/freelancing finances BS

 

[Bewlen]

More taxes should get them to change their mind, hey Tito?

/s

 

[CommonSense]

Man, all this article proves is that South Africa has higher standards than Europe /s

 

[Hamster]

*country?

*obviously

 

[zolly]

This has been happening pre-covid too. Remote/Freelancing from South Africa (keyword Africa) is also very difficult to find a job for considering there's a lot of people who just equates Africa with Scam. I was told very bluntly, even though I'm on the same timezone that they prefer, because I'm not somewhere in Europe, I won't qualify for the remote position.

Freelancing is another crap thing as work isn't constant and it's hard going from x k/month to 0 k/month until you get enough work/reputation online to actually get work, and that's IF they pay you. Did that for 3 years (had savings) and the amount of people who signed a valid retainer contract and agreed to x amount of work a month that DIDN'T pay up and just broke the contract, did that anyway because they knew you wouldn't be able to afford lawyers to take them to court and the amount is too much for small claims court.

I'd rather just do a job, get paid my monthly salary and not worry about remote/freelancing finances BS

I was in a similar situation, but managed to land a semi-regular freelance gig because I posted on linkedin that I was available. A former coworker reached out to me and asked me if I wanted to earn pounds. Obviously said yes and some months were insanely good and others were pretty kak.

After a pretty kak month the company I freelancer for actually reached out to me and said they had a ton of work coming in and asked if I was interested in going full-time. I took hit on my hourly rate but yes, I get a fixed amount every month and am earning a comfortably middle class salary. The extra "security" (I'm on a 6 month probation period where I can quit/get fired pretty much immediately) is still better than what I had to deal with as a freelancer under COVID conditions.

 

[srvittal]

I certainly get where Ryan* is coming from, I'm a final year BSc undergraduate. I don't intend to study further just yet so I started looking around for something small that could possibly give me some experience, after trying a few dozen places, all I get is an unsuccessful email. How does a graduate even get work experience when not a si gke place wants grads. Things become even more complicated when people are offered jobs based on race rather merit. I strongly believe SA has a lot of potential but we need the right leaders along with citizens willing to make some change and sacrifice for the better future of our country.

 

[Iwojima]

So is Ryan's* issue a lack of job availability or is it that he is the wrong demographic?

 

[skimread]

This has been happening pre-covid too. Remote/Freelancing from South Africa (keyword Africa) is also very difficult to find a job for considering there's a lot of people who just equates Africa with Scam. I was told very bluntly, even though I'm on the same timezone that they prefer, because I'm not somewhere in Europe, I won't qualify for the remote position.

Freelancing is another crap thing as work isn't constant and it's hard going from x k/month to 0 k/month until you get enough work/reputation online to actually get work, and that's IF they pay you. Did that for 3 years (had savings) and the amount of people who signed a valid retainer contract and agreed to x amount of work a month that DIDN'T pay up and just broke the contract, did that anyway because they knew you wouldn't be able to afford lawyers to take them to court and the amount is too much for small claims court.

I'd rather just do a job, get paid my monthly salary and not worry about remote/freelancing finances BS

Overseas you have the right to work in a country and you apply for a position you would most likely get an interview if you meet the qualifying criteria. . I think part of it is because it is easy to fire someone in a country. In South Africa it's hard due to the labour laws, companies need a lawyer and long dispute of unfair dismissal.

My biggest gripe with SA is that recruiters are beyond useless yet companies prefer using them over posting jobs ads themselves. Also employers never give feedback probably because they have to do it through a recruiter or SAs tough laws where you can claim they discriminate against you.

 

[NeoAcheron]

Me and my wife moved to the Netherlands last year. Best thing I ever did. Sure you miss South Africa, but the only thing I regret is not doing it sooner.

The paperwork was easier than applying for a new job in SA, stuff just works here and by far the most trouble we had coming here was dealing with the ZA government for official documents (birth certificates, marriage certificate, etc).

 

[NeoAcheron]

Overseas you have the right to work in a country and you apply for a position you would most likely get an interview if you meet the qualifying criteria. . I think part of it is because it is easy to fire someone in a country. In South Africa it's hard due to the labour laws, companies need a lawyer and long dispute of unfair dismissal.

My biggest gripe with SA is that recruiters are beyond useless yet companies prefer using them over posting jobs ads themselves. Also employers never give feedback probably because they have to do it through a recruiter or SAs tough laws where you can claim they discriminate against you.

The depends on where you go. Most of Europe have just as strict labour laws, and some are even more strict in that regard.

 

[Surv0]

Bottom line, if you are qualified, most countries will take you in, and if you land a successful job interview, they are already taking this into account and arranging a work permit for you. This is the only way to do it in some countries, you cannot just get a work permit and go from there. You need an actual invite and the company must likely prove they cant source locally.

For the most part, residency is easy if you are qualified, most countries are in need of most qualification based professions.

It takes effort, but its not hard.

 

[skimread]

I don't understand how people can say it's easy to get an interview overseas. Please give me tips how

Yes if you are from US or EU. Otherwise it is incredibly hard. A person from India or South Africa can't just pitch up in Europe and ask for interview. First they have to apply for tourist visa and use their existing employement letter that they will return. As a tourist you are not allowed to look for a job. Yes, some people apply for jobs from South Africa. But those usually have a network or the exact skill the employer is looking for and which there is a shortage for.

 

[Voicy]

After receiving multiple distinctions at school, he went on to study Accounting Sciences at a university in Gauteng – where he received a Golden Key award.

Article aside, I had to lol at the "golden key award". I sure hope "Ryan" doesn't consider that worth putting on his cv. It's about as useless and boastful as saying you were a prefect.

I "received" one of those golden key award invitations from varsity back in the day but they wanted me to pay for some nonsense so I just ignored the letter.

 

[cguy]

I don't understand how people can say it's easy to get an interview overseas. Please give me tips how

Yes if you are from US or EU. Otherwise it is incredibly hard. A person from India or South Africa can't just pitch up in Europe and ask for interview. First they have to apply for tourist visa and use their existing employement letter that they will return. As a tourist you are not allowed to look for a job. Yes, some people apply for jobs from South Africa. But those usually have a network or the exact skill the employer is looking for and which there is a shortage for.

I definitely wouldn't say it's easy. For me it was mostly networking (I didn't even apply for the job, I was asked to interview): academic publications, attending international conferences, involvement in public activities, github (well, SourceForge back in the day), FlipCode articles (now defunct, but you get the pictures), posts on compsci.algorithms newsgroups (dating myself), etc.

As a secondary, observation, around when I finished my degree, the University had a ton of interest from overseas companies and SA expats in these companies. I recruited several people from SA myself some 12-15 years back. Amusingly, I posted a few job adverts at the university a few years back, and received zero interest. Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth. If you studied at a university it may be worth checking to see what's been added to your FB groups or whatever.

 

[skimread]

I definitely wouldn't say it's easy. For me it was mostly networking (I didn't even apply for the job, I was asked to interview): academic publications, attending international conferences, involvement in public activities, github (well, SourceForge back in the day), FlipCode articles (now defunct, but you get the pictures), posts on compsci.algorithms newsgroups (dating myself), etc.

As a secondary, observation, around when I finished my degree, the University had a ton of interest from overseas companies and SA expats in these companies. I recruited several people from SA myself some 12-15 years back. Amusingly, I posted a few job adverts at the university a few years back, and received zero interest. Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth. If you studied at a university it may be worth checking to see what's been added to your FB groups or whatever.

Environment is changing so quickly. There are thousands of bootcamps with their own recruiters getting people into IT these days. IT changes so quickly and googling and using stackoverflow is so easy. Free training is everywhere including youtube.
I definitively think in 2020 that uni graduates aren't sought after as they were. IMO in IT a degree has become a nice-to-have and not a necessity. 20 years ago it was the opposite.

 

[cguy]

Environment is changing so quickly. There are thousands of bootcamps with their own recruiters getting people into IT these days. IT changes so quickly and googling and using stackoverflow is so easy. Free training is everywhere including youtube.
I definitively think in 2020 that uni graduates aren't sought after as they were. IMO in IT a degree has become a nice-to-have and not a necessity. 20 years ago it was the opposite.

A degree has never really been a necessity for the type of work that bootcamp grads typically end up doing. Wherever I've worked, and all the other big foreign tech companies that I'm familiar with, the vast majority of those being hired today still have a 4 year degree or higher.

Also, to the original point, one is far less likely to get a work visa sponsorship with a bootcamp qualification. Apart from the fact that candidates are most likely available in their own country already, the individual countries often also have accredited degree requirements.