South Africa's brain drain - A first-hand account of emigration

[TEXTILE GUY]

The thing is .......... many dont emigrate per se. You leave, get a work permit, a job, extend it ...... enjoy the life without walls, enjoy the comforts ........... miss the people back home for sure ..... but, one has to earn money too.
You realise that there is life after South Africa ........ SAffers integrate well, we braai anywhere we land, make biltong ..... and you be surprised where we turn up.

This was not his initial plan, and Ryan reiterated that he wanted to stay in South Africa to pursue his career.

The lack of opportunities locally, however, forced him to look outside of the country.

“I truly love South Africa and this will always be home, but I am excited to be going overseas, and being exposed to new industries and new cultures,” he said.

This is it, exactly.
I believe there are opportunities, but, a certain "type" of person just has limited choice or as these South Africans say .............

White people ‘visitors in our country’, says Malema

White people ‘visitors in our country’, says Malema

Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF) leader Julius Malema says while white people are a permanent feature in South Africa – they must act like visitors to a home.

www.jacarandafm.com

“BEE is here to stay.”
The passionate response by President Ramaphosa to a Parliamentary Q&A question from Freedom Front Plus leader Pieter Groenewald

No, BEE is not racist. But it does need some work…

The controversial BEE debate is back, and the misconceptions bigger than ever.

www.thesouthafrican.com

And when that BEE hits, it hits hard.

 

[Milano]

Companies do not offer sponsorship easily. They first want you to have the right to work in that country before they offer you a job. It's a chicken and egg situation.

People make as if it is easy. It isn't.

Competing for freelance scraps on a remote freelancing site could in many ways be equally or maybe even more difficult, and far less rewarding as you still live with all the negatives that drive professionals to want to leave SA in the first place. Nothing worth doing is ever easy. That said, for some it is easier than for others. How much you actually want something is always a factor too as it dictates how many different avenues are open to you.

 

[Milano]

Me and my wife moved to the Netherlands last year. Best thing I ever did. Sure you miss South Africa, but the only thing I regret is not doing it sooner.

The paperwork was easier than applying for a new job in SA, stuff just works here and by far the most trouble we had coming here was dealing with the ZA government for official documents (birth certificates, marriage certificate, etc).

Dealing with ZA is such a pain but I will say that for some unknown and extremely bizarre reason the ZA document apostle service is first-class. Maybe due to some international treaty they are compelled to perform at a high level? It is the most completely un-ZA thing in ZA.

 

[hj007]

Competing for freelance scraps on a remote freelancing site could in many ways be equally or maybe even more difficult, and far less rewarding as you still live with all the negatives that drive professionals to want to leave SA in the first place. Nothing worth doing is ever easy. That said, for some it is easier than for others. How much you actually want something is always a factor too as it dictates how many different avenues are open to you.

interestingly there are quite a few South African freelancers on the platforms, earning reasonably well (per hour and total earnings) that equates to a decent amount in Rands. I would think that earning $50 per hour isn't too bad compared to a salaried role locally? There are some experienced Linux, Salesforce and security consultants earning in the $100-$125 range, which I think would compare favourably with the consulting rates available in SA.

Freelance is never going to be the same as an executive/performance incentive-based position in terms of remuneration. But if you're looking for a higher earning rate than what's available in SA in your job, then the weak Rand can potentially be in your favour without needing to move.

 

[Slegdehammer67]

They, the Government, will pay a price for this in time to come let them laugh and rest on their laurels now, but pay they will...because apparently if you're of a certain colour you are not deemed to qualify by law...good luck

 

[LCBXX]

Taxpayer and entrepreneur drain, rather.

 

[bro-da]

I don't understand how people can say it's easy to get an interview overseas. Please give me tips how

Yes if you are from US or EU. Otherwise it is incredibly hard. A person from India or South Africa can't just pitch up in Europe and ask for interview. First they have to apply for tourist visa and use their existing employement letter that they will return. As a tourist you are not allowed to look for a job. Yes, some people apply for jobs from South Africa. But those usually have a network or the exact skill the employer is looking for and which there is a shortage for.

It can be more streamlined if you use a reputable recruiter - ie not the spammers on LinkedIn.

The ones with good reviews and a track record will arrange the interview via Skype give you all the info sometimes even help with prep. Can get up to 4 a month this way until you find the one you want.

The best recruiters have their rep on the line and will never force you into a role you dont want. they will sell hard but never force you.

 

[HavocXphere]

I don't understand how people can say it's easy to get an interview overseas. Please give me tips how

Yes if you are from US or EU. Otherwise it is incredibly hard. A person from India or South Africa can't just pitch up in Europe and ask for interview. First they have to apply for tourist visa and use their existing employement letter that they will return. As a tourist you are not allowed to look for a job. Yes, some people apply for jobs from South Africa. But those usually have a network or the exact skill the employer is looking for and which there is a shortage for.

99% of the people I know just did skype interviews.

 

[skimread]

99% of the people I know just did skype interviews.

On which job boards do they apply to get a Skype interview?

 

[grok]

This has a negative impact on the country in multiple ways, including a decline in tax revenues, a skills shortage, and a loss in critical health and education services.

Wakanda is above all that western crap.

 

[skimread]

Wakanda is above all that western crap.

When money run out and people realize that government can't pay them, they will rise up and create Wakanda. The church of ANC predicted it.

 

[Solarion]

I spoke to an agency this week about a job I'm looking at in Canada. They deal locally too in SA.

Anyway they said they are STRUGGLING to find candidates to fill positions in SA. There just isn't anybody available.

Edit: Just go have my daily bitch and moan out of the way, SA companies overall don't value their IT staff especially coders. Treat them like rubbish and pay like rubbish.

I've seen many dev teams packed into overcrowded sweat shops with poor lighting and unnaceptable noise levels. Managers tear their coders apart for the product not working properly when it is still only in development stage. They make unreasonable commitments on behalf on their teams which cannot be met and then threaten pay cuts and longer hours and when they put in the longer hours they refuse to pay them.

 

[HavocXphere]

On which job boards do they apply to get a Skype interview?

No so much boards but rather networking connections and recruiters reaching out to people directly.

Will be industry dependent though so my 99% of people observation might not be relevant for you

 

[skimread]

No so much boards but rather networking connections and recruiters reaching out to people directly.

Will be industry dependent though so my 99% of people observation might not be relevant for you

I have had UK recruiters reach out to me a few times but that was always want my CV as they say there is jobs in SA. When I ask I am interested in UK or EU they said they can't help me. So I don't send my CV. That's how messed up it is.

 

[grca]

This article was quite realistic I think. Fact is, governments are like companies whose customers are born to them continuously and involuntarily. Imagine a company that received an endless supply of new customers every year, and whom had mostly no choice on the matter? That would be good business.

This unfortunate situation means that citizens have to work hard to make their governments compete. Emigration is much the same as cancelling your cellphone or Internet contract, just much harder of course. The last 10-20 years of South Africa Inc. has only shown that the sooner South Africa Inc. goes bankrupt, the sooner something new can emerge, hopefully for the better of the next generation. So those who can, emigrate, move your business offshore, do whatever you can to reduce or eliminate your tax to South Africa. It is the only thing that can save the country in the long term, I believe.

As someone who has spent an enormous amount of time researching and experiencing alternatives to South Africa, I am amazed why any outsider would invest in South Africa. Between the corruption, policy uncertainty, government incompetence, currency volatility, exchange controls, high taxes (real and hidden), rising labour and energy costs, the country really doesn't seem to offer much. I can full well see how the Guptas came about. One would have to have criminal advantages available to make all the pitfalls of South African investment worthwhile. And given these conditions created by the South African government that only seem to be getting worse, I expect no end to the corruption any time soon.

 

[TEXTILE GUY]

the sooner South Africa Inc. goes bankrupt, the sooner something new can emerge, hopefully for the better of the next generation.

Consider this ........... in sub-Saharan Africa, how did the economies of countries do since the "revolution" and how long, if at all, has it taken them to be a better place........
SA, at least a generation or two will pass before we come right, if ever.

 

[HavocXphere]

the sooner South Africa Inc. goes bankrupt, the sooner something new can emerge

That way lies madness & frankly I hate that people encourage it.

If SA circles the drain now and goes down it...by the time it emerges the rest of the world will be full of AI and actual 4IR. The current lot of 30% pass rates can't compete now and you think post crash SA will somehow pull a resurgence out of the bag???

No...this has to happen without hitting rock bottom because SA won't recover. Not confident it'll hold it's ground as is never mind with a stint of rock bottom along the way

 

[grca]

If SA circles the drain now and goes down it...by the time it emerges the rest of the world will be full of AI and actual 4IR. The current lot of 30% pass rates can't compete now and you think post crash SA will somehow pull a resurgence out of the bag???

No...this has to happen without hitting rock bottom because SA won't recover. Not confident it'll hold it's ground as is never mind with a stint of rock bottom along the way

Yes I think the only way to see the necessary reforms is through a decline that is quick and radical enough that the current generation are motivated and compelled to democratically step in and significantly change the government almost overnight. The country still has sufficient infrastructure and human capital to carry it forward through a massive recovery if government policies can be quickly changed.

Continuing the slow decline of the past 20 years I think will more likely just end in the abject and lasting multi generational failure seen in some other African nations. The old South Africa and South Africans would have long left, died, or decayed beyond repair, and the new South Africans will be beyond self-help as they accept their reality as unchangeable.

Consider this ........... in sub-Saharan Africa, how did the economies of countries do since the "revolution" and how long, if at all, has it taken them to be a better place........
SA, at least a generation or two will pass before we come right, if ever.

If you're referring to the post colonial revolution, I think South Africa is a bit different to other nations here. South Africa has retained or created many good qualities such as democracy, rule of law, monetary policy, a progressive constitution, educated people, undisputed borders, capital infrastructure, and of course the colonisers or their descendants. In other nations, the colonisers mostly picked up and left over night, and what remained seems to have been destroyed through social chaos, civil wars, border and/or cultural conflicts, and outside influence or exploitation. Africa is arguably a mess since post colonial rule, but South Africa has managed to avoid many of the problems, and has a ton of potential to follow a completely different path of progress and prosperity.

 

[Mekon]

In a post Covid world you suddenly have everyone applying for jobs. People are changing careers and spending the year studying new fields that allow working from home. The competition is tough.

If there was so much discrimination against whites in SA then why aren't all the white people on remote freelancing sites?

Because not all jobs can be done remotely.

 

[hj007]

That way lies madness & frankly I hate that people encourage it.

If SA circles the drain now and goes down it...by the time it emerges the rest of the world will be full of AI and actual 4IR. The current lot of 30% pass rates can't compete now and you think post crash SA will somehow pull a resurgence out of the bag???

No...this has to happen without hitting rock bottom because SA won't recover. Not confident it'll hold it's ground as is never mind with a stint of rock bottom along the way

Agreed. whos to say it just wont be war and famine.