South Africa's Cybercrimes Bill - How it will affect networks

S.Claus

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Isn’t this considered invasion of privacy ? I don’t see them really gathering any evidence on those who know what their doing (VPN , RDP and TOR to name a few)
 

Swa

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Isn’t this considered invasion of privacy ? I don’t see them really gathering any evidence on those who know what their doing (VPN , RDP and TOR to name a few)
According to current legislation it's illegal to monitor connections without a court order. Once an order has been obtained law enforcement would already be aware of a crime. So I don't see how any of this is enforceable as it doesn't repeal any of those sections. So I'm wondering how exactly are ISPs supposed to be made aware of a crime.
 

TelkomUseless

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So many questions...

What do they define as a crime in cyberspace? Visiting torrent sites? Downloading ? What if you download legit stuff on torrent sites? News groups? FTP? Etc?
 

Lew Skannen

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Unfortunately for our uneducated lawmakers, the bill is not in line with existing legal frameworks and it is bound to either get scraped in total or delayed for a very long time to come. The idea behind the bill is noble, but you need experienced lawmakers to get it to a working state.
 

Lew Skannen

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And the ISP will know this how ?

This does not include piracy. The act says nothing of piracy, as it is being dealt with by the Copyright Act. It is just another 'clever' attorney firm who thinks they can use a loopehole to cover piracy. This is going to fail dismally.

The act clearly states that the specific section needs to take into consideration theft as per common law. Unfortunately, the definition of theft still has not changed and required permanent removal of ownership, which is not the case in piracy. This is nothing but grabbing at straws.
 

ekske1

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South Africa's Cybercrimes Bill - How it will affect networks

The incoming Cybercrimes Bill was recently opened to members of the public for comment.

This latest version of the Bill, passed by the National Assembly in November 2018, cuts out the controversial cybersecurity section present in previous versions.
RSA-China reaching?
Fatima Ameer-Mia, a senior associate at Cliffe Dekker Hofmeyr, told BusinessTech that the Bill will now focus on:
  • Cybercrime
  • Jurisdiction of the courts
  • Powers of investigation, search, seizure and access
  • Evidence gathering
  • The establishment of a designated point of contact
  • The reporting of obligations and penalties

Ah yes for the crimes seeing for the safety of the children was dropped?
 

daveza

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SA is drowning in murder , rape and corruption - let's use police resources to make sure nobody is downloading The Kardashians ( because they are going hungry .... ) :rolleyes:
 

TelkomUseless

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SA is drowning in murder , rape and corruption - let's use police resources to make sure nobody is downloading The Kardashians ( because they are going hungry .... ) :rolleyes:

That is what I don't understand. SA (ANC) doesn't want anything to do with the Western investors etc. ANC doesn't ever care about people stealing billions. But yet they do care about people downloading tv shows/etc?

I smell MultiChoice here. They need to protect their monopoly...
 

Swa

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That is what I don't understand. SA (ANC) doesn't want anything to do with the Western investors etc. ANC doesn't ever care about people stealing billions. But yet they do care about people downloading tv shows/etc?

I smell MultiChoice here. They need to protect their monopoly...
It's all about increasing surveillance.
 

dominic

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if anyone wants to look at the actual text....

section 54 of current version of the Cybercrimes Bill said:
Obligations of electronic communications service providers and financial institutions

54. (1) An electronic communications service provider or financial institution that is aware or becomes aware that its computer system is involved in the commission of any category or class of offences provided for in Chapter 2 and which is determined in terms of subsection (2), must—
(a) without undue delay and, where feasible, not later than 72 hours after having become aware of the offence, report the offence in the prescribed form and manner to the South African Police Service; and
(b) preserve any information which may be of assistance to the law enforcement agencies in investigating the offence.

(2) The Cabinet member responsible for policing, in consultation with the Cabinet member responsible for the administration of justice, must by notice in the Gazette, prescribe—
(a) the category or class of offences which must be reported to the South African Police Service in terms of subsection (1); and
(b) the form and manner in which an electronic communications service provider or financial institution must report offences to the South African Police Service.

(3) An electronic communications service provider or financial institution that fails to comply with subsection (1), is guilty of an offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding R50 000.
 

dominic

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As part of the Bill, local Internet service providers and networks would have to report any offences committed under this Bill to SAPS within 72 hours of becoming aware of such an offense taking place on their networks. This includes online piracy by users.

not true.

the obligation to report offences already exists so this is nothing new....there is a grey area about when an ISP becomes aware but this has not been problematic in practice.
 

dominic

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Unfortunately for our uneducated lawmakers, the bill is not in line with existing legal frameworks and it is bound to either get scraped in total or delayed for a very long time to come. The idea behind the bill is noble, but you need experienced lawmakers to get it to a working state.

do not disagree that our parliamentarians are mostly not able to process legislation of this nature but my view is the bill - which has been consulted on for about 4 years now - is in line with international best practise
 

Lew Skannen

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do not disagree that our parliamentarians are mostly not able to process legislation of this nature but my view is the bill - which has been consulted on for about 4 years now - is in line with international best practise

I do agree with you in this regard. Unfortunately, there are quite a few things that still needs to be looked at, which will cause a number of conflicts, especially when it comes to prosecution. As for piracy, unfortunately, this law does not even begin to address it, especially in its current form.
 

smkungfu

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So many questions...

What do they define as a crime in cyberspace? Visiting torrent sites? Downloading ? What if you download legit stuff on torrent sites? News groups? FTP? Etc?
I assume they will target illegal gambling sites. In every single town there is an "internet cafe" used for gambling.
 

TelkomUseless

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Nope. Usually their servers are in Greece, Bulgaria, Israel etc. They use loopholes and the police are on their payroll. Worked at one of those joints for a while. Dodgy people.

Interesting indeed. I thought any online gambling was illegal.. so these guys found a loophole.
 

Swa

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not true.

the obligation to report offences already exists so this is nothing new....there is a grey area about when an ISP becomes aware but this has not been problematic in practice.
Don't disagree with this but there's still the problem that actively monitoring data is illegal. This doesn't repeal the provisions in the ECT act so how are ISPs going to realistically become aware? The only scenario I see is where a court order is already obtained or where a third party brings it to their attention. Both cases it should be redundant to report it again.

do not disagree that our parliamentarians are mostly not able to process legislation of this nature but my view is the bill - which has been consulted on for about 4 years now - is in line with international best practise
May be the case but I don't see how it would be workable or enforceable. Seems to me like it's the equivalent of polishing a turd. May look nice at first but when you start to handle it it still reveals itself as a turd.
 
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