South Africa's Minister of Defence vs the US Secretary of Defense

Jan

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Simple comparison explains why South Africa's ministers are so bad at their jobs

Last week's deadly riots and looting exposed the incompetence and lack of accountability in South Africa's cabinet — especially the crime prevention and security cluster.

President Cyril Ramaphosa acknowledged that the government was poorly prepared to deal with the public violence, destruction, and sabotage in KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng.
 

Matt91

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giphy.gif
 

Illegal Allien

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I find the comparisons a bit simplistic, the US has had years to build institutions and has long institutional memory to go with that, SA in particular still has to build traditions for themselves. If you were a member of the ANC MK, would you be happy having a Minister of Defence who might have been part of the enemy a few years ago, who routinely routed your pals every time there was a skirmish during the war? The minister just has to put the country first and be above the petty factional battles the ruling party is so fond of.

In my view, the fact that the DG's of ministries are not career civil servants but come and go with a particular minister is root of al the rot in government, we simply do not have continuity.
 

Spizz

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I find the comparisons a bit simplistic, the US has had years to build institutions and has long institutional memory to go with that, SA in particular still has to build traditions for themselves. If you were a member of the ANC MK, would you be happy having a Minister of Defence who might have been part of the enemy a few years ago, who routinely routed your pals every time there was a skirmish during the war? The minister just has to put the country first and be above the petty factional battles the ruling party is so fond of.

In my view, the fact that the DG's of ministries are not career civil servants but come and go with a particular minister is root of al the rot in government, we simply do not have continuity.

MK were useless. Dewy eyed nonsense.
 

cyb3rt

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I find the comparisons a bit simplistic, the US has had years to build institutions and has long institutional memory to go with that, SA in particular still has to build traditions for themselves. If you were a member of the ANC MK, would you be happy having a Minister of Defence who might have been part of the enemy a few years ago, who routinely routed your pals every time there was a skirmish during the war? The minister just has to put the country first and be above the petty factional battles the ruling party is so fond of.

In my view, the fact that the DG's of ministries are not career civil servants but come and go with a particular minister is root of al the rot in government, we simply do not have continuity.
cool
*rolls eyes

Anyway.
 

Hamster

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I find the comparisons a bit simplistic, the US has had years to build institutions and has long institutional memory to go with that, SA in particular still has to build traditions for themselves.

You're right. Nobody from before 1994 can be trusted so all the traditions and experience before then is racist and irrelevant.

27 years, we are such a young country, is way too short a time to find anybody better than a primary school teacher to lead the country's war machine! I say give her more time, one of these decades she'll be a force to be reckoned with :thumbsup:
 

Illegal Allien

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MK were useless....
Exactly my point, they were nonsense militarily. but guess what their political wing is in power and would you really think they would allow someone from the SADF to then lead the Defence ministry?
 

Illegal Allien

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You're right. Nobody from before 1994 can be trusted so all the traditions and experience before then is racist and irrelevant.

27 years, we are such a young country, is way too short a time to find anybody better than a primary school teacher to lead the country's war machine! I say give her more time, one of these decades she'll be a force to be reckoned with :thumbsup:
The minister is just a political figurehead, what qualifications do the DG's in that ministry actually hold?
 

rh1

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In my view, the fact that the DG's of ministries are not career civil servants but come and go with a particular minister is root of al the rot in government, we simply do not have continuity.
I agree with this part, the other thing is our strategic plans, which every government department, public entity, agency, SOC etc must create. All lofty ****, until it comes to the actual targets/numbers, then it becomes a scraping of the barrel type of thing. The minimum which they will do. Go read up on some of these targets, and you will see how stupid and easy it is to achieve. The thing is, the ministers for that entity needs to sign off on those targets, so he or she needs to make sure that we as the public is getting bang for our bucks, so to speak, and we all know how well that is going.


Back to your other point, how long does it take to build up structures? You make like we had nothing in terms of governing structures. So yeah, 27 years is short, if there was nothing, but was there absolute nothing in place?
 
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