South Africa's Minister of Defence vs the US Secretary of Defense

hj007

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I can accept that she is just the figurehead. But who is the person that is actually in charge of operations of the military, the DG? Surely there is a head of military that has experience below her? If it's teachers all the way down, or they aren't allowed to act because she has to give the go ahead, then she isn't qualified.

TL;DR most CEOs are not technical folk that do the work, but lead the organisation. Who is the technical/operational person below her?
 

MachoPants

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Fact is we canot compare our ministry, even to bunch of hogs in a pen. Hogs have a use, it is ridiculous to even try a comparison
 

JohnStarr

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The US Secretary of Defence is a general.
Has ours even fired a .22? Or a pellet gun?
 

TheChamp

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I can accept that she is just the figurehead. But who is the person that is actually in charge of operations of the military, the DG? Surely there is a head of military that has experience below her? If it's teachers all the way down, or they aren't allowed to act because she has to give the go ahead, then she isn't qualified.

TL;DR most CEOs are not technical folk that do the work, but lead the organisation. Who is the technical/operational person below her?
It's the DG. And just to make things even more interesting we also have a Secretary for Defence, which is nothing like their Secretary of Defence.
 

yebocan

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once the ANC is swept out,....the EFF with their degrees and superior intellect will illuminate all with their advance knowledge...thank gods those matriculates from the DA do not stand a chance...
 

Cosmik Debris

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I find the comparisons a bit simplistic, the US has had years to build institutions and has long institutional memory to go with that, SA in particular still has to build traditions for themselves. If you were a member of the ANC MK, would you be happy having a Minister of Defence who might have been part of the enemy a few years ago, who routinely routed your pals every time there was a skirmish during the war? The minister just has to put the country first and be above the petty factional battles the ruling party is so fond of.

In my view, the fact that the DG's of ministries are not career civil servants but come and go with a particular minister is root of al the rot in government, we simply do not have continuity.

South Africa built institutions and a world class military. The ANC took over and got rid of all that institutional memory to start over again. We in the military warned them about doing so but they refused to listen. The mantra then was; - "your father told my father what to do and you're not going to tell me what to do!"

This was the same mantra used at Eskom and every other SOE and state institution. Over 300 years of institutional memory lost.
 
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TheChamp

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So why aren't they comparing the DG then? This seems an incorrect comparison.
That's the problem I have been talking about all along about getting stuck comparing the two positions, but it's just easy enough for some people to accuse me of deflecting.

You can't compare the US position to the DG as well, for an example their Secretary has some command powers or the President can delegate such powers, our President cannot do that with our DG.

But I guess where there's a will, there's a way.
 

TheChamp

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It's the DG. And just to make things even more interesting we also have a Secretary for Defence, which is nothing like their Secretary of Defence.
Edit*

It looks like DG of the department is the Secretary of Defence.
 

surface

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It's like insisting that King Mswati and Cyril are both heads of their respective governments and wanting to compare their positions, you can do it but you are going to get stuck somewhere.
I haven't heard creative names for the frog boiler recently. I am hoping your posts will be an inspiration to creative minds. :sneaky:
 

hj007

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That's the problem I have been talking about all along about getting stuck comparing the two positions, but it's just easy enough for some people to accuse me of deflecting.

You can't compare the US position to the DG as well, for an example their Secretary has some command powers or the President can delegate such powers, our President cannot do that with our DG.

But I guess where there's a will, there's a way.

I guess the problem is ultimately that people feel the military failed them, regardless of the structure. So a scapegoat is a scapegoat.
 

Nanfeishen

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How come one is an Inuit and one is "first nations" that seems odd, makes me think this is a made up pos.

Also, who's the dark haired woman in the back row. She looks hot.
"The Canadian Constitution recognizes three groups of Aboriginal peoples: Indians (more commonly referred to as First Nations), Inuit and Métis. These are three distinct peoples with unique histories, languages, cultural practices and spiritual beliefs."
 

surface

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It gets people hot under the collar and makes the i-told-you-sos feel a bit better.
It is like some here are "genetically" high IQ and Newton & Einstein were also high IQ but that is where the comparison ends.
 

pinball wizard

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Cosmik Debris

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Exactly my point, they were nonsense militarily. but guess what their political wing is in power and would you really think they would allow someone from the SADF to then lead the Defence ministry?

Well every head of the SANDF and arm of service had a political ANC figurehead as it's chief and a former SADF deputy chief who was the de facto head of service. The ANC guy did the pictures and appearances while the SADF guy tried to run the service among huge political interference.

You want some names? General Roland de Vries and Admiral Hanno Teuteberg for starters... Both now retired. Go have a look who the present deputy chiefs are...
 
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