South Carolina moves closer to allowing death by firing squad

konfab

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You’d think with current technology they could set up a row of unmanned weapon stations with a preset aim to the middle of a chair in the region the heart would be and at the press of a button (with a number of dummy buttons so no one knows who actually initiated the shooting) the weapons each fire a 3 round burst.

Surely better than a human firing squad.
Why would you aim for the heart as opposed to the head?

If they actually wanted the best way to do it, it would be to tie tbem down and put a bullet to the head from a pistol to the skull.

Just as a general point, killing somone in cold blood should be brutal and terrible, especially for the people who do it. Making it like euthanizing an old cat robs the act of its inherent wrongness.

And if you had to set the rules for this type of thing, the person making the decision to kill someone should be responsible for pulling the trigger.
 

Bonywasawarrioraway

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Let me be crystal clear on this... I'm opposed to ALL methods of execution.

I think a firing squad is barbaric.

I think the electric chair is barbaric.

I think lethal injection is barbaric.

I think hanging is barbaric.

I think, as a species, we should be able to remove societal deviants from society without, you know, killing them.
eject them into space alive? that's just cruel. Ok, so life inprisonment. But do they have to get HBO?
 

Bonywasawarrioraway

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Why would you aim for the heart as opposed to the head?

If they actually wanted the best way to do it, it would be to tie tbem down and put a bullet to the head from a pistol to the skull.

Just as a general point, killing somone in cold blood should be brutal and terrible, especially for the people who do it. Making it like euthanizing an old cat robs the act of its inherent wrongness.

And if you had to set the rules for this type of thing, the person making the decision to kill someone should be responsible for pulling the trigger.
massive head trauma adds to the misery of the family who now have to bury a .. well i'm sure you understand.
 

wizardofid

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Thanks, just had that massive trauma discussion with Cosmik, and my point with CPR was that a stopped heart doesn't immediately stop brain function - as you've confirmed. Bringing people back from the dead is a canard you've added.

My issue is with the trauma of a GSW.

Well, my issue is with the death penalty, but in the case of this thread, it's the barbarism of shooting someone dead.
Loss of consciousness kinda makes it pointless regardless, CPR doesn't actually prevent cell death, cell death occurs regardless and almost immediately after the heart stops. Preserving function doesn't actually mean cell death doesn't occur. Whether you are being hanged, gas chamber, lethal injection, firing squad or electrocution pretty much have the exact same result in stopping the heart. Brain may still be firing signals regardless, maybe with the exception of hanging which the purpose is to break the neck, and disrupt the signal to the rest of the body.

People that have had CPR preformed on them over extended period and received advance care and heart rythm restored, often suffer from deficits, comas, vegetative states or suffer from severe cognitive disabilities. There is still a time limit, as brain death still occurs regardless of CPR, the purpose is to delay and lessen the impact.

The end result is pick your poison death is the result.
 

greg0205

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Loss of consciousness kinda makes it pointless regardless, CPR doesn't actually prevent cell death, cell death occurs regardless and almost immediately after the heart stops. Preserving function doesn't actually mean cell death doesn't occur. Whether you are being hanged, gas chamber, lethal injection, firing squad or electrocution pretty much have the exact same result in stopping the heart. Brain may still be firing signals regardless, maybe with the exception of hanging which the purpose is to break the neck, and disrupt the signal to the rest of the body.

People that have had CPR preformed on them over extended period and received advance care and heart rythm restored, often suffer from deficits, comas, vegetative states or suffer from severe cognitive disabilities. There is still a time limit, as brain death still occurs regardless of CPR, the purpose is to delay and lessen the impact.

The end result is pick your poison death is the result.
You and I are not disagreeing on this at all... You just haven't realised it yet.
 

Bonywasawarrioraway

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Come on Greg, you, as a former SADF ops medic that has served in the front line know that you are being dishonest in your argument. The massive shock to the nervous system of having several rounds penetrate the chest cavity simultaneously will cause instant loss of consciousness if the person is not already dead. The shots won't even be heard. The impact force will also cause the brain to impact the skull resulting in contusion and damage that will lead to instant unconsciousness if the person is not already dead. You know that the shock can be so great that retina's can be detached.
All of that is good. but then,

Dec. 10, 2001 -- Donald Morehouse awoke from routine bypass surgery last month only to learn he had brought back more from the Korean War than just a medal — he had survived being shot through the heart, and no one knew it until now.

The 70-year-old veteran from Pennsylvania had been treated during the war for a bullet wound to the chest. But during a recent procedure, doctors made a startling discovery — evidence that Morehouse had been shot through the heart nearly a half century before.

Yes what you say is mostly, predominantly, overwhelmingly (you get the picture) true.
But it is not guaranteed infallible. If it was why are so many firing squad victims finished off by the officer in charge?
Its probably better than an injection of drain cleaner but there will definitely be people who survive in agony at least for a while.
 

wizardofid

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Military executions have been carried out in this way for over a hundred years. Very often a coup de grace is required with a pistol shot to the head. There is even an example (korean war I think) of a trooper surviving a 20mm anti aircraft round through the torso. (I know, thats what I thought) I do not think there is a way to guarantee instant painless death without total destruction of the body ie strapped to 1000lb bomb. And nobody wants to clean up or bury that mess.

Lol I mentioned early in the thread a method of execution was strapping to the mouth of a cannon.....That sounds like fun lol.........
 

Bonywasawarrioraway

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Genuine question. If we can euthenase animals humanely with a massive overdose of anaesthetic whay cant we do people. I know that some don't die, vet and author james herriot describes euthenasing a sheep (against farmers will) with a large dose. Animal woke up four days later. But lets get ridiculous and go with a liter or two. Aside from vein finding issues, wouldnt that work every time? Or is my evening whiskey working too well?
 

Bonywasawarrioraway

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Lol I mentioned early in the thread a method of execution was strapping to the mouth of a cannon.....That sounds like fun lol.........
Yep the poms. In india especially. I still wouldnt want to clean up. And what about misfires and hangfires? *shudder*
In the service standard procedure is to wait 30 mins. Talk about torture.........
 
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Bonywasawarrioraway

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Why would you aim for the heart as opposed to the head?

If they actually wanted the best way to do it, it would be to tie tbem down and put a bullet to the head from a pistol to the skull.

Just as a general point, killing somone in cold blood should be brutal and terrible, especially for the people who do it. Making it like euthanizing an old cat robs the act of its inherent wrongness.

And if you had to set the rules for this type of thing, the person making the decision to kill someone should be responsible for pulling the trigger.
The russians would walk you into a room with a sluice in the floor and shoot you in the back of the head. I have not seen any data on how many required a second bullet. Given how many were executed like that I am sure there were one or two. There are enough holocaust gun shot execution survivors to indicate even contact wounds to the head are not always fatal.
 

konfab

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Let me be crystal clear on this... I'm opposed to ALL methods of execution.

I think a firing squad is barbaric.

I think the electric chair is barbaric.

I think lethal injection is barbaric.

I think hanging is barbaric.

I think, as a species, we should be able to remove societal deviants from society without, you know, killing them.
I agree. We are a sofisticated species now, who make all critical decision based on reason and evidence.
 

greg0205

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I agree. We are a sofisticated species now, who make all critical decision based on reason and evidence.
Except we often fail, and that's why we're in a thread discussing execution by firing squad.

It doesn't mean we should stop trying to be better 'tho.
 

Cosmik Debris

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Aah, so now you agree. There *is* wounding. "Massive shock", "contusion", "damage", even detached retinas.

See, Cosmik, the reason I'm dwelling on this is that the 'immediate' and 'painless' death you're hawking requires - as you've just conceded - massive trauma.

I don't believe a civilised society should be putting people to death in the first place, and requiring massive trauma to facilitate that death is simply barbaric.

Those being put to death deserve what they get for doing it to others. Actions have consequences. And they don't feel the bullets anyway. You're being pedantic and dishonest with the wounding references.
 

greg0205

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Those being put to death deserve what they get for doing it to others. Actions have consequences. And they don't feel the bullets anyway. You're being pedantic and dishonest with the wounding references.
But tell me more about Ledell Lee.
 

Cosmik Debris

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But tell me more about Ledell Lee.

Outlier on the normal distribution curve. Statistically insignificant and there always will be outliers. Same reason flying in an aircraft is considered safe yet there will always be aircraft accidents. Your chances of being in an aircraft accident are statistically insignificant. Same as the chances of being a Ledell Lee.

Get the drift?
 
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