SpaceX starlink in South Africa

Nod

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If it were any other I’d be a little more of a sceptic but so far so good. Was there a timeframe given?
No time frames were given.
You can show interest on their website.
I suppose there will be a few regulatory hurdles to get over before launching a service in SA.
 

Geoff.D

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No time frames were given.
You can show interest on their website.
I suppose there will be a few regulatory hurdles to get over before launching a service in SA.
More than a few. And then you get to the BBBEEEE crap. And the kickback payments.
 

quovadis

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More than a few. And then you get to the BBBEEEE crap. And the kickback payments.
They can just take the Multichoice approach. After all, Multichoice only officially applied for a satellite broadcasting license in 2006. Good luck trying to regulate something that requires no physical presence whatsoever in the country of operation.
 

Geoff.D

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They can just take the Multichoice approach. After all, Multichoice only officially applied for a satellite broadcasting license in 2006. Good luck trying to regulate something that requires no physical presence whatsoever in the country of operation.
The only factor is that the ITU has always taken a very dim view of operators in the space domain abusing their licence conditions and are remarkably well behaved in general. So there is that factor. In essence, all Starlink will do if the problem becomes severe will be to simply "switch off" when over SA territory.

The MC case is because of the rather extensive "grandfather" clause that was applicable. Not MCs problem but the regulator's problem. MC simply milked it for as long as they could.
 

furpile

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diesel

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I don’t have fibre, so got you there. :)

But that has nothing to do with the point.

The lowest common denominator in a satellite system is a radio frequency link, and no your fibre connection is never going to go over such a link unless it’s a failover situation.

Starlink however in its inherent design is ALWAYS going to use that lowest common denominator.

I was in the satellite telecoms business for almost a decade. I’ve seen them all and actually used them in the real world.

And that’s not to say Starlink isn’t revolutionary to the industry, but it’s not going to be the all in wonder system these initial tests make it seem like.

Every new satellite launch looks this amazing at the beginning before it’s in real use.
Your experience is your handicap because you are so used to working with old technology you are basing your assumptions on experiences with old technology , the whole game changing factor is the low orbit and sheer number of satellites in the network. nothing thus far has ever come close to the magnitude and capability.

You might think your experience makes you an expert but in fact you are the dial up guy trying to act cool in front of the fibre techs.
 

SauRoNZA

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Your experience is your handicap because you are so used to working with old technology you are basing your assumptions on experiences with old technology , the whole game changing factor is the low orbit and sheer number of satellites in the network. nothing thus far has ever come close to the magnitude and capability.

You might think your experience makes you an expert but in fact you are the dial up guy trying to act cool in front of the fibre techs.

Not at all.

I’m fully aware this is a next generation network and an industry game changer.

My objection is people thinking this will replace their fibre or even compete with 5G which is not the case.

This is still a product for people who don’t have better options. It’s not replacing the current best terrestrial network options, it’s replacing the current best satellite options where those would have conventionally applied.

Or the odd case where even LTE or DSL is so poor or low speed it can supersede that technology as well in its worst forms.

It’s the marketing pitch and how people have interpreted it that gets me.
 

Geoff.D

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Not at all.

I’m fully aware this is a next generation and a game changer.

My objection is people thinking this will replace their fibre or even compete with 5G which is not the case.

This is still a product for people who don’t have better options. It’s not replacing the current best options.

It’s the marketing pitch and how people have interpreted it that gets me.
Exactly. It is not about the technology, it is all about the BS marketing distortions and hype. Tell the facts like they are and there will be no problem.
 

diesel

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Not at all.

I’m fully aware this is a next generation and a game changer.

My objection is people thinking this will replace their fibre or even compete with 5G which is not the case.

This is still a product for people who don’t have better options. It’s not replacing the current best options.

It’s the marketing pitch and how people have interpreted it that gets me.
Correct this is more for the people with no better option but you have to admit if it lives up to the expectation it will be better than fibre (not as stable, bad weather can severely affect this) , in terms of speed capability and latency the true potential is still coming, Remember this service is still in sort of beta , they are talking about ramping this up to 1gb/s speeds. give them time eventually they expect to have thousands of these things flying around the planet. I have no doubt it will result in better speeds and lower international latencies for everyone.
 

SauRoNZA

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Exactly. It is not about the technology, it is all about the BS marketing distortions and hype. Tell the facts like they are and there will be no problem.

I’ve been very impressed by Linus Tech Tips test drive which as expected came out to about the VDSL level with maybe a little more bandwidth this one an empty network.

It did of course also disconnect midway etc but not all bad.

People just need to know what to expect.

If you can get fibre or 5G it will win out every time over StarLink.
 

Geoff.D

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Correct this is more for the people with no better option but you have to admit if it lives up to the expectation it will be better than fibre (not as stable, bad weather can severely affect this) , in terms of speed capability and latency the true potential is still coming, Remember this service is still in sort of beta , they are talking about ramping this up to 1gb/s speeds. give them time eventually they expect to have thousands of these things flying around the planet. I have no doubt it will result in better speeds and lower international latencies for everyone.
There is always pie in the sky talk. Pun intended. That is what kills so many innovative ideas.
As I have said before, it is going to take years before you see any of that latency advantage on international connects. And then, it will not based on current technology ever be as wonderful as the claims are.
 

zolly

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All I want to know is if it cuts down on international latency due to efficiencies in its network, how often it disconnects while it switches satellites, and how long those disconnects last.
 

Geoff.D

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All I want to know is if it cuts down on international latency due to efficiencies in its network,
No, The network claims to have the potential to route traffic via ISLs to create a space path for international traffic at some time in the future when all satellites are equipped with ISLs, preferably laser links. Currently, only a few "test satellites" are quipped like this covering the polar regions because it is those areas that have no alternatives and are not likely to be supported by very large GS networks. The efficiencies are supposedly going to come from very large capacity laser link ISLs. The "switching time" between satellites (especially under loaded conditions), not known.
how often it disconnects while it switches satellites
The will depend on the number of satellites covering the area where you are and the impact again when the network becomes heavily loaded is unknown at this stage. There obviously will be handover issues every time a new satellite takes over your connection.
, and how long those disconnects last.
From microseconds to minutes.
 
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diesel

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I’ve been very impressed by Linus Tech Tips test drive which as expected came out to about the VDSL level with maybe a little more bandwidth this one an empty network.

It did of course also disconnect midway etc but not all bad.

People just need to know what to expect.

If you can get fibre or 5G it will win out every time over StarLink.
Lets agree that we not going to agree about this and at this stage everyone is guessing,

But my guess is that starlink will beat both fibre and 5G in speed and international latencies once its fully operational.

5G has the speed but its downfall is still congestion, also 5G will still need to route through a undersea cable or satellite to connect internationally, this will affect speed and latency. also stability is dependent on weather or power outages etc.

Fibre is stable , fast and well priced but not readily available and still has high"ish latencies depending on your location.
 

Geoff.D

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Lets agree that we not going to agree about this and at this stage everyone is guessing,

But my guess is that starlink will beat both fibre and 5G in speed and international latencies once its fully operational.
A wild guess, and has pretty much nothing to do with being operational. All to do with CAPACITY, just like every other network in existence.
5G has the speed but its downfall is still congestion, also 5G will still need to route through a undersea cable or satellite to connect internationally, this will affect speed and latency. also stability is dependent on weather or power outages etc.
Exactly the same congestion constraint is going to bite Starlink. There IS NO SUCH THING as a congestion-free network. There is NO way ALL traffic will be routed through the ISLs. Most traffic WILL be routed to the nearest GS and then go terrestrial.
And the weather and power issues are not something to write-off as an almost in-passing comment.
Fibre is stable , fast and well priced but not readily available and still has high"ish latencies depending on your location.
Latency is a FACT of life. It exists in every single network that exists at the moment and will stay with us until someone comes up with a technology that does not obey the current laws of physics.
 
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