Speak or forever hold your peace

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ajak

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Thomas Jefferson, co-writer of the American declaration of independence and founding father, has been quoted in this column before. Here's another typical Jeffersonian quote - one that typically applies to our current situation:
"Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government."

It's only an independent, unfettered media that can ensure that people are well-informed. That "they can be trusted with their own government".

Speak or forever hold your peace

So, if you're serious about your freedom and your rights in a democracy, show it. You literally have democracy at your fingertips - add your comment below and show your support to the effort media freedom watch dogs are putting in.

Or otherwise, shhhh... and forever hold your peace. Because that is exactly what will happen. You will be shhhh....ut up and shhhh...ut off from information.

Films and Publications Bill

What is it all about? Well, it's still about the home affairs department's proposed amendment to the Films and Publications Bill. If accepted, the media would be subject to pre-publication censorship and other restrictions.

The amendment is making waves around the world, and seriously harming our reputation as a country that takes its constitution seriously.
http://www.news24.com/News24/Columnists/Lizette_Rabe/0,,2-1630-1714_1991535,00.html
 
Has the bill been published for comment? And where do we send our comment to?
 
Dave A said:
Has the bill been published for comment? And where do we send our comment to?
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Probably to the same place as the comments on Johannesburg International: The Government's Deleted Items folder AKA /dev/null (I believe all mail addressed to Pallo Jordan goes in there automatically).
 
The Bill has not yet been gazetted, but when it does, comments will AFAIK have to go to the Department of Home Affairs, since they are the ones behind the bill.

I hope that it doesn't go this route though, I have been reliably informed that the Department will meet with the South African National Editor's Forum to discuss alternatives to the proposed amendment.

Just one thing I don't understand, if we are to believe the Department's explanation for the bill as being to curb child porn - tell me how ? AFAIK child porn is illegal and is done "underground" for lack of a better term, not in daily, weekly, or monthly news publications
 
xtermin8or said:
Just one thing I don't understand, if we are to believe the Department's explanation for the bill as being to curb child porn - tell me how ? AFAIK child porn is illegal and is done "underground" for lack of a better term, not in daily, weekly, or monthly news publications
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The erosion of rights is an insidious process - it doesn't happen overnight - chipped at piece by piece (as our previous history) - this is more of the same - the end of our short road of freedom.

Child porn? EVERY publication/article will have to go through this process of being submitted for publication... exactly like the darkest days. The end of press freedom.

(and BTW - IOL is presently down - has been for half an hour - and that's all it would take.)

(but why am I telling you this - you're another stooge.)
 
sidestep ? what sidestep, I am not the Gvt, and don't need to explain issues and ffs read my post
 
Wow you two have some issues, what are you both going on about?

Back to the point..... Could you let us know when we can send in comments? It would be more useful then.
 
xtermin8or said:
sidestep ? what sidestep, I am not the Gvt, and don't need to explain issues and ffs read my post
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sorry my kneejerk; but the finer issue:

I hope that it doesn't go this route though, I have been reliably informed that the Department will meet with the South African National Editor's Forum to discuss alternatives to the proposed amendment.

This is apologist (and as far as I know ? this has already happened.)

Point: we shouldn't be having this conversation - and here you are defending it "the editors forum" - as if that makes it okay (to be having the conversation in the first place, ie, sidestepping the issue.)
 
@ kilo - I know for a fact that there are still meetings planned between the two - and SANEF has been outspoken in it's criticism of the bill - we have to pin some hope on them ( this is not apologist )

@ Gavin - comment is only taken once the bill is gazetted for public comment, but that shouldn't stop us from making our comments now

SANEF

Or

Write to:

Director General
Dept. of Home Affairs
Private Bag X114
Pretoria
0001
 
xtermin8or said:
Just one thing I don't understand, if we are to believe the Department's explanation for the bill as being to curb child porn - tell me how ? AFAIK child porn is illegal and is done "underground" for lack of a better term, not in daily, weekly, or monthly news publications
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It's going to have to deal with internet "publishing". This is my big concern.

Not surprisingly, the print media is making much of the issue iro print media. But the internet is probably the ultimate "freedom of speech" publication media. It allows every citizen to be a journalist/commentator/publisher, and for me this is actually a far more severe assault on the principles of free speech.

Freedom comes at a price - responsiblilty. If we surrender our personal responsibility to filter what we read and give that responsibilty over to government, we surrender our freedom along with it.

In this instance it is the reverse. Government is taking away from our responsiblity as individuals, and with it the associated freedom.
 
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Dave A said:
It's going to have to deal with internet "publishing". This is my big concern.

Not surprisingly, the print media is making much of the issue iro print media. But the internet is probably the ultimate "freedom of speech" publication media. It allows every citizen to be a journalist/commentator/publisher, and for me this is actually a far more severe assault on the principles of free speech.

Freedom comes at a price - responsiblilty. If we surrender our personal responsibility to filter what we read and give that responsibilty over to government, we surrender our freedom along with it.

In this instance it is the reverse. Government is taking away from our responsiblity as individuals, and with it the associated freedom.
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As far as I understand it, the section that they are proposing be removed is Chapter 6 Section 22(3)

which states

(3) A newspaper published, and a poster of a newspaper issued as an advertisement of any newspaper, by a publisher who is a member of the Newspaper Press Union of South Africa, shall not be subject to the provisions of this Act.
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so in effect, it only applies to newspapers, and not the internet

but I hope that doesn't mean we will be losing your support in the anti-amendment bill effort
 
The majority gets influenced by news papers and TV, so this makes alot of sense. It is the minority that uses the internet at this stage (due to telkom) so it shouldn't bother the supporters of this bill that much, I guess. Therefor we must all stand against this bill as this will give government the control over free thought of the majority.
 
Chatmaster said:
The majority gets influenced by news papers and TV, so this makes alot of sense. It is the minority that uses the internet at this stage (due to telkom) so it shouldn't bother the supporters of this bill that much, I guess. Therefor we must all stand against this bill as this will give government the control over free thought of the majority.
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Does using the internet make you immune to media influence? Some of the most brainwashed people I met were on the internet.
 
Mmmmmm, that is actually a very good question, as the internet is filled with bs. IMO it definately gives a wider more informed perspective in order to form your own opinion. Sometimes based on facts, sometimes based on fiction.
 
But if it is only published print media, what on earth does this have to do with child pornography?

Understanding this whole thing would be a lot easier if there was a copy of the draft bill available. Any links/leaks?

@xtermin8or: Yes, Of course I still support this initiative for freedom of speech. My concern is that print media has organised representation which is being met. But who is looking after other types of media?
 
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Dave A said:
But if it is only published print media, what on earth does this have to do with child pornography?

Understanding this whole thing would be a lot easier if there was a copy of the draft bill available. Any links/leaks?

@xtermin8or: Yes, Of course I still support this inititive for freedom of speech. My concern is that print media has organised representation which is being met. But who is looking after other types of media?
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First print media - then in a little while an expansion (to sites the government deems unacceptable) - and so it will go - until one day you wake up and discover you're in China.

Why must this gub change things that are working? Aah, because in their eyes it's not working. I may be wrong but the way I understand this is EVERY story, picture published will have to be passed - this has nothing to do with child porn, simply the sugar on the pill. Before publication, verification - will destroy free press in this country. And plain fact - at this time - free press is the only thing pointing to failures by gub (and carnage) - no press, no news - nirvana.
 
Hi Dave, here is a link to the Act in it's curent form

Film and Publications Act, 1996

As I understand it the clause they want to remove is in chapter 6, excluding newspapers from the bill.

What worries me though, and I am not sure, if websites fall into their category of publications according to their definitions. If so we are in even more trouble than we thought
 
xtermin8or said:
Hi Dave, here is a link to the Act in it's curent form

Film and Publications Act, 1996

As I understand it the clause they want to remove is in chapter 6, excluding newspapers from the bill.

What worries me though, and I am not sure, if websites fall into their category of publications according to their definitions. If so we are in even more trouble than we thought
Click to expand...
Thanks. Going to read up before commenting further.
 
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