Speed vs. Signal [forumites please read post #2]

Baron_Sengir

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Jul 29, 2005
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I'm sure this sounds like a really dumb question but can latency and download speed be improveed with a better signal? I only get 2 bars on my card?

And secondly is there another simple alternative to boost the signal if it will improve speeds?

Thanks
 

vodacom3g

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Baron_Sengir said:
I'm sure this sounds like a really dumb question but can latency and download speed be improved with a better signal? I only get 2 bars on my card?

And secondly is there another simple alternative to boost the signal if it will improve speeds?

Thanks

Not dumb at all, actually 100% spot on.

To transmit data over radio frequencies at these crazy speeds (we can already achieve 1.8Mb/s!), you need to do very fancy modulation and encoding (M&C) of the data stream. The systems employ a number of different M&C techniques to accommodate different signal conditions. The better the signal (high level and no interference), the more complex the M&C can be.

For example, EDGE employs a range called MC4 to MC9 and will automatically select the best one based on the current conditions.

UMTS (3G and especially HSDPA) is the same.

So throughput is directly proportional to signal quality.

In addition to the above, there is another phenomenon called "cell breathing" which states the more users on a UMTS cell, the smaller the cell.

The cell does not physically shrink, but rather as more users operate in the cell, the conditions for everyone deteriorate and the ones with the worst signal conditions (i.e. at the edge of the cell) will drop off first.

Thus it appears that the cell shrinks and expands, i.e. it's "breathing".

It's obvious that you would want to get the best possible signal and the ultimate answer is to have enough base stations to give everyone the best possible signal. It's not so easy, however.

1) You need to find a site - Not nearly as easy as it sounds. Invariably someone objects to a new site.

2) You need lots of new sites with UMTS, many times more to cover the same area than with GSM. (currently we have 1600 3G base stations that cover about 16% of the country, compare with about 5000 base stations needed to give 98% coverage on GSM).

3) You need to plan the radio frequencies in such a way that it does not interfere (or be interfered) with all the neighbouring cells, the other cellular operators and anything else that might be transmitting in the area.

4) The site needs to be build which obviously takes resources (finance, man power, time).

You can see it's not so easy just to roll out a UMTS network and the criteria for selecting the next site is a combination of usage need (number of users, current load, etc.) plus all the above factors.

Thus Port Shepstone will be lower on the list than a Johannesburg suburb.

You can see the latest coverage on www.vodacom.co.za.

If you don't have optimal coverage, or have good coverage but with lots of interference, you must try and get the best possible signal in your environment.

1) Increase signal level - Just moving indoors will drop the signal by at least 8dB, so try and have as little physical obstructions in the signal path.

There are a range of antennas available to boost the signal, from the simple clip-on supplied with the card, to the range available from Poynting. Their high-gain, externally mounted antenna works extremely well, especially if you work a lot in a fixed position, like your home or office.

You could also use the WiFi Router to allow you to move the 3G card to the best possible position, high up in a ceiling, for example.

2) Decrease interference - Make sure you don't have other transmitters close to your 3G card, WiFi access points, etc.

The better you make life for the 3G signal, the better your chances to get the best possible throughput.

Some forumites have gone to extreme measures to get a proper signal. I know of one laptop with a 3G card high up in a tree! Biometrics (I think) has got a tower that's a hazard to the local air traffic.
 
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Diago

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I live a distance away from a tower (being on a farm). I had a Yaris antenna installed and with Vodacom's help had it pointed to the closest tower to me. Even with a 2 Bar connection I get a stable connection that never drops. I get 5 bar on a clear day. Anyone that wants to see what wheather does to a GPRS/3G signal come spend a day at my house. Cloud cover = Instant 2 Bars, Clear open sunny day = 5 Bars. The antenna however boost the signal enough to keep it constant and connected.

Before this I had massive problem trying to stay connected due to being indoors and on the complete wrong side of the house. All thought I have perfect voice signal everywhere, data was a complete different story.
 

ajax

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Diago said:
Anyone that wants to see what wheather does to a GPRS/3G signal come spend a day at my house. Cloud cover = Instant 2 Bars, Clear open sunny day = 5 Bars. The antenna however boost the signal enough to keep it constant and connected.

I'm always curious to see how far I can pick up signals. One holiday I was driving down the south coast. I picked up Radio Algoa on FM in Riviersonderend accidently when I was searching for anoher station. The tower was the one nearby Kareedouw or J'bay in the Eastern Cape, about 500km away. They call it sporadic E when this kind of thing happens.

Conditions in the atmosphere can totally kill a signal as well.
Before KFM broadcasted from Tygerberg, when I lived in Bellville I used to listen to them from Piketberg using an external Yagi. Some days it was like cd quality sound, absolutely hissless in stereo, and some other days I couldn't get the station at all. I remember there was one day Telkom complained that the phone lines to Piketberg were "cut off" due to the atmosphere killing the radio link.

There are some dudes who make it DX receiving their hobby. I know of a case of someone in Australia picking up a terrestrial tv broadcast from the BBC from the UK one day, but it was only for an hour or so. The guy had pictures of his tv screen - the received picture looked quite watchable.

I wonder how 3G will perform over that distance.
 

vodacom3g

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Unfortunately the carrier frequencies keep on going up making it more difficult.

In the days of AM and lower frequencies (MW, etc.) you could pick up signals from around the world. I once got Radio Moscow with an antenna about 400m long!

Ajax, thanks for pointing out the atmospheric impact, should have added it above.
 

TowerGuru

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"Thus Port Shepstone will be lower on the list than a Johannesburg suburb."

Port Sheptone allready has 3G... for quite awhile actually. i should know, i go to school there.

I suspect Port Edward is on the list to. It's right after Mare Ambrium (a sea on the moon). :eek:
 

vodacom3g

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GayTechie said:
"Thus Port Shepstone will be lower on the list than a Johannesburg suburb."

Port Sheptone allready has 3G... for quite awhile actually. i should know, i go to school there.

I suspect Port Edward is on the list to. It's right after Mare Ambrium (a sea on the moon). :eek:

Yes, a large number of smaller towns already have 3G. Last count I saw had over 200 towns on 3G.

Btw, there are no seas on the moon, hope they've taken it out of the Port Shepstone matric text books by now. :)

Latest research seems to indicate there might actually be water, though.
 

Big Kriss

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Sao Paoulo,Brazil was a good hit at night on 27Megs and 29Megs from a 1/4 wave dipole....Russia was also on at times,but the buggers could not talk as we were language dis advantaged....
Now a 1/4 wave di pole is omni directional...
 

Harley79

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Jan 21, 2005
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re: signal. What is a good recommended antenna for fixed location?? I have moved and even my normal voice signal is not the best. Its in Randburg but think the area obviously just a "rough" patch. Standard supplied antenna helps, but not not enough, especially during the current bad weather we having. v3g, I know suggested Poynting but which antenna?? :)
 

TowerGuru

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actually if you did your research THERE WERE seas' on the moon millions of years ago. The darker patches you see on the moon when u look at it at night are those dried up seas. if you happen to be an amateur astronomer like me you would know these things, but i shall forgive your faux pas.
 

arf9999

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GayTechie said:
actually if you did your research THERE WERE seas' on the moon millions of years ago. The darker patches you see on the moon when u look at it at night are those dried up seas. if you happen to be an amateur astronomer like me you would know these things, but i shall forgive your faux pas.
er...really? The so-called "Maria" (seas) of the moon are actually plains of basaltic (volcanic) rock. We know this to be true 'cos Buzz and Neil landed in the middle of the so-called "sea of tranquility" and brought back some samples.

There are theories that there is water on the moon (in the form of ice in areas where the heat of the sun never reaches), but no definitive proof. But I doubt whether there were ever or ever could be liquid seas, because liquid water, in a vacuum would boil to vapour as soon as sunlight touched it, and would freeze as soon as it was dark. <edit:> In fact water cannot exist as liquid in a vacuum and would change from solid to gas and vice versa depending on temperature. This is called sublimation and crystal lattice formation. You can see an example of sublimation at normal room temperature in the case of "dry ice" which is frozen carbon dioxide, and changes directly from solid to gas.</edit>

<Edit:> FYI the triple point of water (the combination of pressure and temperature at which a substance can be either liquid, solid or gas - or all three) is .0099 degrees Centigrade at 0.006 atm. Google really is your friend :)</edit>
 
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TowerGuru

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AH SHUCKS!!!!!!!!!!! i left your noddy badge at home arf9999!!!!!!!! (what a whack name) I'll bring it for you tommorow see? *pats him on the head*
 
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