Speeding fine - is this legal?

HapticSimian

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
15,950
@Enigma You are confusing a few things here. Can you state the law or regulation which stipulates what you are saying?

National Road Traffic Act, 1996
Chapter XV : General provisions
87. Service of notices





1) Whenever in terms of this Act any notice is authorised or required to be served upon or issued to any person, such notice shall either be served personally upon the person to whom it is addressed or be sent to him or her by registered post to his or her last known address: Provided that the address furnished by the holder of a driving licence at the time of his or her application for such licence or recorded against his or her name in a register of driving licences, or the address recorded against the registration of a vehicle in a register of motor vehicles as the address of the owner of such vehicle, shall serve as his or her domicile of summons and execution for all purposes arising from or for the purposes of this Act, for the service of notices, post or process on that person.

2) Service by registered post in terms of subsection (1) shall be deemed to have been effected on the tenth day after the date stamped upon the receipt for registration issued by the post office, which accepted the notice.

3) A certificate by the officer who issued the notice referred to in subsection (1), or by a person subordinate to such officer, stating the time, place and manner of issuing such notice, shall be prima facie proof that such notice was duly issued.

The scheduled decriminalisation of minor traffic offenses in relation to the AARTO Act (Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Act, 1998) even more explicitly details the process to be followed. This Act is currently being rolled out nationally...

You did ask ;)
 
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grok

Honorary Master
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
28,671
Still looks fishy to me..

Here's the fine & attached images

http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/showphoto.php/photo/11396/size/big/cat/500
http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/showphoto.php/photo/11394/size/big
http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/showphoto.php/photo/11395/size/big

Did some investigation of my own .. :cool:

The HTML source shows the images are from imageshack:

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/9582/ubuntulh.jpg
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/1720/ubuntulf.jpg

The header won't open. Also checked the traffic-fine.co.za domain is registered to James Guthrie from Randburg. No real hits on google for domain:za but 1st international hit was James Guthrie and Company :: Solicitors | Notaries | Estate Agents.

Definitely not from the municipality - some collection agency perhaps?
 

grok

Honorary Master
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
28,671
How will they know where you serviced your car last?

Maybe they're linked to the dealer network? Or somebody form inside the dealer supplies the info. They've got your plate - and the dealer has all your info.
 

Slootvreter

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Messages
30,273
Maybe they're linked to the dealer network? Or somebody form inside the dealer supplies the info. They've got your plate - and the dealer has all your info.

If you service your car at the dealer. ;) I seriously doubt that they are tapped into all dealer networks, and are able to search details with just a registration plate number.

...or just run to the nearest tow truck driver on the corner, slip him a R50 and ask him to find out more about the owner of the car. :eek: :D
 

HapticSimian

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
15,950
from a whois query on www.co.za:

Domain: traffic-fines.co.za

Accounting info....
Date |Type| Cost |Invoices are E-Mail to....|Paid Date |ICnt| TrkNo |Billing Info
2007-06-24| N | 50.00|billing@za-dns.com |2007-07-11| 2 | 783702|ZA-DNS
2008-07-02| R | 50.00|billing@za-dns.com |2008-09-15| 3 | 1004792|ZA-DNS
2009-07-02| R | 50.00|billing@za-dns.com | NOT PAID | 1 | 1299486|ZA-DNS

Probably looking for your money so they can renew the domain :D

Just to add - the registrant of the domain's cell number is on the query. Give him a call & find out wtf is going on.
 
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HapticSimian

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Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
15,950
Maybe they're linked to the dealer network? Or somebody form inside the dealer supplies the info. They've got your plate - and the dealer has all your info.

Yep, guaranteed to be accurate for at least 2 minutes post delivery of a new car. Cars get stolen, sold and written off and none of this information is necessarily relayed to the dealer. There is also no centralised dealer network - each manufacturer-group runs their own.

They might be getting it from any number of sources (eNATIS comes to mind, if your info is up to date) but it's not from Frikkie who changed your GeeeTeeeAaaaai's oil last week.
 

mjkelly

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
348
I just got one of these same emails to my Gmail account. Also from some fine in 2007, from email ubuntu@traffic-fine.co.za? :confused: Where is Ubuntu muncipality?

I don't like the look of it at all!
 

Kuga

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
2,350
Wtf telephone number is that 0878 prefix?? LOL. I would just phone your nearest traffic department and see if there is a fine out.

I had a similar incident happen, except it was legit. I got pulled over for speeding while driving my ex works bakkie. They told me they would sort it out. About 6 months went by (I had left the company by then) and a warrant for my arrest got mailed to me, for failing to appear in court. I was like wtf? I didn't get a summons. So I phoned my ex employer, shat him out, they said they would take care of it again.

Anyways, long story short, the warrant for my arrest was null and void because I didn't sign the summons. Also, if they try and pull you over, they need to have that summons with them, the original, otherwise they can't touch you, should your case be legit.
 

Gomario

Banned
Joined
Oct 15, 2005
Messages
462
Ok. You people assume everything is working by the book, which obviously is not ! You are quick to apply the law when it suits. Fine. Remember this is 2009 ! Of course you can prove some of the warrants where issued wrong but do you think the police man, checking your vehicle on a sunday afternoon 1000km away, will believe you or the arrest warrant? Trust me, you'll be locked up in no time and if you resist (rightfuly or not) you'll be charged for that too. I witnessed quite a few of this over the years. I could'nt care less if the warrant is wrong. Is not my work to check the validity thereoff. At the start of the holidays I am getting a batch of warrants from all over which I try to 'jackpot' and that's it. Jeffrey's Bay is a very popular vacation place. And N2 (the Garden Route) is very busy. Lots and lots of GP number plates too. The modus operandi on the police's site is not quite right either but this is how it is and it works. I am not going to get into that. Usually I tell the suspect to stop crying/screening/kicking etc and contact his/her layer immediately to sort out the *****. If none of the other passagers have a valid drivers licence, I even organise for a constable to drive the vehicle to the nearest town (usually only a few km away). Some passagers are cross,some rude. Usually, after a few ours of waiting next to the road, the tempers calm down and they agree to be driven away. I can tell you lots of stories like this. Once I had a 4year old boy running on N2 after the police van, taking his dad away :( All what I am asking for is PLEASE sort out the issues BEFORE I get you ! A start to a nice holiday can quickly turn into a nightmare ! Yes, some of the warrants may and are issued wrong (most are Ok though - or at least I hope so).Either way, I MUST lock you up REGARDLES ! If you ever get into a situation like this, please DO NOT resist arrest ! That will be another charge and you'll be found guilty regardless. Don't try to explain anything to the SAPD members on the scene. Is not their duty nor authority to question the validity of such warrant ! You'll be taken to the local police station (arrested) and detained there untill the next day when you'll be taken to court. Here is the place where you can and should explain whatever you have to say. You'll be released (unless you hurt or damaged something during the arresting procedure - in which case the cops will be there and arrest you on that case right away !) I know is IDIOTIC the whole procedure, but this is how it is. I close this debate (from my site), by once again begging you to: - PLEASE, if there is half a chance that a arrest warrant is issued in your name, get to the bottom of the story before the cops get you !
 
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HapticSimian

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Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
15,950
Ubuntu municipality is in the Northern Cape, stretching from Richmond in the East to Loxton in the West, with offices in Victoria West. It seems the bit of the N1 south of Hanover would fall under their jurisdiction.

The website speed-fine.co.za is registered, but non-functional. Can anyone remember the group who were featured on Carte Blanche a few months ago regarding their work in exposing irregularities within the Metro Police workings? I'm sure they'd have a field day with this...

Shockingly,http://www.gcis.gov.za/gcis/directory.jsp?dir=15&cat=62&org=2155 lists at least 2 of the email addresses used by Official government representatives as being free/web-based - one gmail, one webmail.

If it is legit insofar as the fine is concerned, a municipality hoping to convince people to pay old fines by sending out emails is laughable at best.

@gomario - I appreciate what you're saying, but the country's laws are there for us to follow as much as what they are for those who enforce them. You might one day ferry me away to spend a few hours in your motel in Jeffrey's, and I wouldn't resist because I respect the fact that you are doing your job. But the discomfort would be a small price to pay for the pleasure I would derive from taking the relevant parties to task after the fact for wrongful arrest and any other areas where they might have missed the mark.
 

Frankie

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Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
5,785
Ubuntu municipality is in the Northern Cape, stretching from Richmond in the East to Loxton in the West, with offices in Victoria West. It seems the bit of the N1 south of Hanover would fall under their jurisdiction.

The website speed-fine.co.za is registered, but non-functional. Can anyone remember the group who were featured on Carte Blanche a few months ago regarding their work in exposing irregularities within the Metro Police workings? I'm sure they'd have a field day with this...

Shockingly,http://www.gcis.gov.za/gcis/directory.jsp?dir=15&cat=62&org=2155 lists at least 2 of the email addresses used by Official government representatives as being free/web-based - one gmail, one webmail.

If it is legit insofar as the fine is concerned, a municipality hoping to convince people to pay old fines by sending out emails is laughable at best.

@gomario - I appreciate what you're saying, but the country's laws are there for us to follow as much as what they are for those who enforce them. You might one day ferry me away to spend a few hours in your motel in Jeffrey's, and I wouldn't resist because I respect the fact that you are doing your job. But the discomfort would be a small price to pay for the pleasure I would derive from taking the relevant parties to task after the fact for wrongful arrest and any other areas where they might have missed the mark.
+1

I think that "gomario" doesn't understand the difference between an email notice and an outstanding warrant.
If no summons was served for whatever reason, then how the hell did they issue the warrant?

Shame on you J-Bay for resorting to such tactics. :sick:
 

HapticSimian

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Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
15,950
Nah, don't be mad at J-Bay Frankie - they're not under discussion here AT ALL.
 

xrapidx

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Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
40,308
Dreaming.
They just accumulate. In fact I believe now you can't re-licence your car unless you're paid up. Also, the police at the roadblocks can detain you for non-payment.

These fines come in the post as an ordinary letter. No official or registered mail.

They do fall away after three years - I've posted a NEWS article multiple times with this detail.

I am a cop and here is my advice. Sackboy is right. It may sound like a scam (and there is a good chance to be one), however, I strongly suggest you contact the traffic dep. mentioned in the letter/sms/email and make sure is a scam (or not). If not, pay the relevant authority and insist on a receipt. I have ruined enough holidays by arresting the driver as they arrived in Jeffrey's Bay to start their vacation. Belive me, is not a nice feeling on my part ! (not to mention the despaire on the accused's site) Keep in mind, the police will most probably. arrest you for failing to appear in court at some date stipulated/mentioned in this letters. Of course, you'll still have to pay the fine. The traffic dep. will deal with you after the criminal charge is over. You know, plenty of criminals out there, don't even know the police is looking for them until they are arrested/behind bars. You can use the excuse 'Sorry, I did'nt know', however, if there is half a chance a warrant for my arrest has been issued somewhere (whatever the reason - and wrongfull as it may be), I will want to be the first to know. Either way, the simple fact that the 'scamers' know so much about you, will justify further investigation on your part - Just a thought :)

You're not going to arrest someone after a final notice - a summons needs to be served, and the court date missed before a warrant can be issued. I have not payed a single fine until a summons is served. I have been pulled over quite a few times - and have yet to be arrested, and I have pile of FINAL NOTICES - the last time I got pulled over and my license checked was last week Tuesday/Wednesday in D'Ville.
 

Frankie

Executive Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
5,785
Nah, don't be mad at J-Bay Frankie - they're not under discussion here AT ALL.
It's disappointing to see that traffic officers blatantly advertise what we all know, and that is that they place more emphasis on revenue generation than improving road safety and visible policing.


Shouldn't this thread be in the "motoring" section?
 

Beetman

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
748
Ok. You people assume everything is working by the book, which obviously is not ! You are quick to apply the law when it suits. Fine. Remember this is 2009 ! Of course you can prove some of the warrants where issued wrong but do you think the police man, checking your vehicle on a sunday afternoon 1000km away, will believe you or the arrest warrant? Trust me, you'll be locked up in no time and if you resist (rightfuly or not) you'll be charged for that too. I witnessed quite a few of this over the years. I could'nt care less if the warrant is wrong. Is not my work to check the validity thereoff. At the start of the holidays I am getting a batch of warrants from all over which I try to 'jackpot' and that's it. Jeffrey's Bay is a very popular vacation place. And N2 (the Garden Route) is very busy. Lots and lots of GP number plates too. The modus operandi on the police's site is not quite right either but this is how it is and it works. I am not going to get into that. Usually I tell the suspect to stop crying/screening/kicking etc and contact his/her layer immediately to sort out the *****. If none of the other passagers have a valid drivers licence, I even organise for a constable to drive the vehicle to the nearest town (usually only a few km away). Some passagers are cross,some rude. Usually, after a few ours of waiting next to the road, the tempers calm down and they agree to be driven away. I can tell you lots of stories like this. Once I had a 4year old boy running on N2 after the police van, taking his dad away :( All what I am asking for is PLEASE sort out the issues BEFORE I get you ! A start to a nice holiday can quickly turn into a nightmare ! Yes, some of the warrants may and are issued wrong (most are Ok though - or at least I hope so).Either way, I MUST lock you up REGARDLES ! If you ever get into a situation like this, please DO NOT resist arrest ! That will be another charge and you'll be found guilty regardless. Don't try to explain anything to the SAPD members on the scene. Is not their duty nor authority to question the validity of such warrant ! You'll be taken to the local police station (arrested) and detained there untill the next day when you'll be taken to court. Here is the place where you can and should explain whatever you have to say. You'll be released (unless you hurt or damaged something during the arresting procedure - in which case the cops will be there and arrest you on that case right away !) I know is IDIOTIC the whole procedure, but this is how it is. I close this debate (from my site), by once again begging you to: - PLEASE, if there is half a chance that a arrest warrant is issued in your name, get to the bottom of the story before the cops get you !

If you detain anyone without being able to prove that a summons has been served (warrant of arrest) that is illegal arrest and i would for sure that i take the responsible parties to court for wrongfull arrest.

That is another thing I've got a big problem withregards to traffic law enforcement in this country. The focus is on soft targets who they know they can milk for money, for instance how is going 71 in a 60 zone or not stopping absolutely dead at a four way stop more dangerous then reckless and/or unroadworthy taxi's.... The focus always seems to be on the first two mentioned and not on the last mentioned because they don't pay and therefore aren't a viable revenue stream.....

Will be on the lookout for you guys when i cruise past j-bay later today :cool:

And btw your post would be a lot eaier to understand if you would use some paragraphing....
 

Beetman

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
748
It's disappointing to see that traffic officers blatantly advertise what we all know, and that is that they place more emphasis on revenue generation than improving road safety and visible policing.


Shouldn't this thread be in the "motoring" section?

exactly!
 

Beetman

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
748
while we are on the topic of j-bay and traffic law enforcement....

album.php
 

dyanamo

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Messages
942
Isnt that illigal? Dont they have to be visable to some extent. You wont see that guy even after you have passed the trap.
 
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