Sport quota's are making my son racist

OhYeah84

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Yes you half correct. Most of the black players in the top team does not have better alternatives but it is mostly because from grassroot the where promoted and the other (whites) was sidelined up to a point where they either they stop playing of left to go and play overseas.
So, better that the team would be all white then. I mean those guys worked their asses off to get there but that isn't really recognised.

I don't agree with tokenism, but FFS some of you guys need to give credit where it's due. Same with me thinking that Hendricks doesn't belong in the Proteas team because he never performs. But then again I felt the same way about Markram who did nothing and kept his place.
 

OhYeah84

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Correct, one the worst captains, leadership and on form.

Only got selected because we where not allowed by the ANC government to have a white couch and captain.

But it told a good story for SA, a poor black kid that became the Springbok captain.
Dude, who in their right mind has a white couch...they spoil easily and show the dirt, especially if kids and animals sit on them!
 

Avbob se stoep

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Siya as a captain is fine, because it seems that players respect him, so it works. he plays below standard at club level, but when he pulls over that springbok jersey he becomes an animal on the field and performs great, certainly great enough to be world-class level. It would show your lack of knowledge in rugby and distrust in Rassie and Jacques if you think otherwise, since they unlock his potential. Also it is not a bad thing that he is interchangeable since it means that everyone is of the same high standard. If anyone is beter than he is at springbok level, the margin is very small.
 

GrootVoet

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Siya as a captain is fine, because it seems that players respect him, so it works. he plays below standard at club level, but when he pulls over that springbok jersey he becomes an animal on the field and performs great, certainly great enough to be world-class level. It would show your lack of knowledge in rugby and distrust in Rassie and Jacques if you think otherwise, since they unlock his potential. Also it is not a bad thing that he is interchangeable since it means that everyone is of the same high standard. If anyone is beter than he is at springbok level, the margin is very small.
A stand by what I said, he's not a great captain or one of the best flankers we have to pick from. He was only selected based on his color and not his abilities. Duane was the leader in the Bok team of 2019.
 

OhYeah84

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A stand by what I said, he's not a great captain or one of the best flankers we have to pick from. He was only selected based on his color and not his abilities. Duane was the leader in the Bok team of 2019.
There you are, you're out now...colours nailed to the mast!
 

Avbob se stoep

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A stand by what I said, he's not a great captain or one of the best flankers we have to pick from. He was only selected based on his color and not his abilities. Duane was the leader in the Bok team of 2019.
I have to admit its hard to believe that he was not selected based on his colour when he entered the springbok mix in 2013, but he developed as a player stepped up to the plate. Siya and Dwayne had different roles to play. Dwayne would organise the defensive structure and Siya would make the on field decisions. They took pressure of one another. Perfectly planned and executed by Rassie and Jacques. If Siya starts to underperform at the Boks now as he did the whole season for the Sharks, then I will agree with you.
 

Anti-Chris

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I have to admit its hard to believe that he was not selected based on his colour when he entered the springbok mix in 2013, but he developed as a player stepped up to the plate. Siya and Dwayne had different roles to play. Dwayne would organise the defensive structure and Siya would make the on field decisions. They took pressure of one another. Perfectly planned and executed by Rassie and Jacques. If Siya starts to underperform at the Boks now as he did the whole season for the Sharks, then I will agree with you.
Nope... Rassie himself said that Duane did the team talks and Siya's role was to engage with the ref....
Siya was good enough for the Boks at one stage, but not in 2018 or 2019 when he was the captain...
 

Anti-Chris

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Siya as a captain is fine, because it seems that players respect him, so it works. he plays below standard at club level, but when he pulls over that springbok jersey he becomes an animal on the field and performs great, certainly great enough to be world-class level. It would show your lack of knowledge in rugby and distrust in Rassie and Jacques if you think otherwise, since they unlock his potential. Also it is not a bad thing that he is interchangeable since it means that everyone is of the same high standard. If anyone is beter than he is at springbok level, the margin is very small.
That is just bollocks... He does not magically improve when he plays for the Boks... That is why he was subbed 3/4 through a world cup final when it was crucial that everyone pulls their own weight...
I will give it to him, last year he was not bad and probably deserved to be in the team, but when he was selected as captain in 2018, he was not even good enough to bench for WP...
 

Fulcrum29

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Never heard of the guy.
Anyways, Springboks won the RWC in 2019 if you have been under a rock. Did it well. They even went on a really well supported trip through RSA with the trophy. They also won the B&I Lions series after going 1-0 down in the first game.
Seems like all races supported them.

Now you know.

I have to disagree on that note, the Springboks RWC 2019 campaign was riddled in local controversy. Things have approved since, and there has been PR to improve this image, but, the Eben Etsebeth gang who hounds the Langebaan community, the Bomb Squad, amongst other smaller perceived issues. Some vitriol which was spewed online was unwanted, but it was drummed on. Then we won the RWC... it was not about proving the people wrong, the 'quota' debate will show its head again in the time to come and so will anything deemed Apartheid related like the Springbok. There were some political leaders who made schitty remarks who were all too happy to take part in the celebrations.

It is not the players; it is the people and their perceptions. Things are so unbalanced, that it takes one bad apple to make all other apples rotten, but the bad apple is at times a synthetic apple.

In my view, as long as the players have unity amongst themselves and are able to block negative social sentiment, the Green and Gold will remain respected. The only racial targets amongst the Springboks are in policy, but the team is merited. Just wait until RWC 2023…
 

Anti-Chris

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We had quotas galore in the Springboks over the years... Zane Kirchner, Rudi Paige, Oupa Mohoje, Raymond Rhule, Whatshisname Watson, Juan de Jong... By saying quota, I am not saying they were necessarily poor players, just that they were not the best in their position at that stage. Even de Allende was a quota at one stage were he was the 5th or 6th best 12, but was the starting 12 for the boks.
 

Avbob se stoep

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My goodness, don't think I need to say more then:ROFL: Im out
That is just bollocks... He does not magically improve when he plays for the Boks... That is why he was subbed 3/4 through a world cup final when it was crucial that everyone pulls their own weight...
 

Markd

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Just a side note on jobs.

Whether black, coloured or white, there is not enough jobs to go around. (VIVA ANC). I have interviewed and hired graduates including, whites, indian, black and coloured.

So why one and not the other:

Graduates: Generally not much to differentiate between them except the following:

1. How well do they understand basic questions: I asked one candidate to tell me about herself, she told me exactly what on her cv and nothing about herself.
2. How well they respond to a question they never heard before. It actually nice one. Nothing difficult should be asked, (take something that is part of the role but which they would not have gotten exposure to in their education), but rather asked to assess how the candidate thinks. Some candidates are just better equipped upstairs and you can actually see them take a moment to think and give a more logical well- thought out answer which they can clearly articulate, whilst others just spew random crap, if I take it to work scenario, the first candidate will attempt to think about the task and take logical steps to achieve it and the other will wait until you spoon feed them.
3. Academic excellence. Why? Because in this day and age of 30% percenters, candidates think 50% is good enough (it just means you on know half of what you supposed to know and either you were to lazy or to dumb to understand the rest)
4. Personality - how well you think they will fit in , how likeable you think they are (more important if they going to deal with clients).

It is a competition with limited spots and just being black/female etc wont get you the job (at least with me) ; I have never overlooked a white/black/indian or coloured candidate if they are really good. I have overlooked candidates of all races because they were really bad. It is freaking very hard to get quality. But they are out there and you just have to work through the crap.

To me quality is more important than anything. Managers who soley look at quotas wont survive simply because you going to suffer where you have kak employees. And yes, race is not indicator of quality.

Too add: Recruitment agencies are also part of the problem, you can state that you want a male because of xyz, they will still just submit black females. 95% of Graduates CV's that get submitted tend to be black females only.
Thats good of you to act in that way my man. In big corporates here though you have to go to the white male executive director to specially approve the hire of any non-BEE candidate because the basic rule is we only hire BEE candidates right now. Gotta hit those levels! I do wonder what the impact on the person getting hired is. Do they not think about these things and just crack on and get stuck in? I dont really care for myself, but this worries me for my kids. I just dont think they're going to get a fair shot in this country because the aren't the color de jure.
 

TheChamp

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Thats good of you to act in that way my man. In big corporates here though you have to go to the white male executive director to specially approve the hire of any non-BEE candidate because the basic rule is we only hire BEE candidates right now. Gotta hit those levels! I do wonder what the impact on the person getting hired is. Do they not think about these things and just crack on and get stuck in? I dont really care for myself, but this worries me for my kids. I just dont think they're going to get a fair shot in this country because the aren't the color de jure.
How are the unemployment numbers looking for the white born frees compared to their black counterparts? I think the odds are still in favour of your children compared to the BEE children they will be competing with for jobs.
 

Kola-CT

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Let your son do individual instead of team sport to begin with.

Will not sort out the situation completely but will help.
 

R13...

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Let your son do individual instead of team sport to begin with.

Will not sort out the situation completely but will help.
It's wrong to have to resort to finding a different sport. Kids shouldn't be subjected to quotas if opportunities are equal.
 

Kola-CT

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It's wrong to have to resort to finding a different sport. Kids shouldn't be subjected to quotas if opportunities are equal.
I agree, but quotas are not going away or changing anytime soon, it will rather get worse.
 

Markd

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How are the unemployment numbers looking for the white born frees compared to their black counterparts? I think the odds are still in favour of your children compared to the BEE children they will be competing with for jobs.
thats beside the point. I dont just want my kids to 'be employed'. I want them to be able to succeed on their own merits, and not be prohibited from attaining a position, or working somewhere they want to work, just because they are white. This is the reality in SA now. I think if we were to stay in this country long term the focus would probable have to lean towards entrepreneurship for them.
 

RedViking

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As long as he remembers, just because the government forces racist laws, not every non-white person is a racist as well. So no point for him to hate or be angry with his black friends who made the team allegedly based on quotas, they did not implement or create the laws.

The government wants to divide us and wants us to hate each other, but we can be better than that, black and white. Let's don't forget who those are that are doing this to South Africa and direct our frustrations and anger at our fellow brothers and sisters.

Good night.
 

GrootVoet

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Look we had a couple of great black and coloured Springboks over the years. Chester, Habana, Errol, The Beast even at the moment we have good players like Am and if Mamimpi can learn to tackle maybe also.

But a lot of players was select not on merit. Earl Rose was the worst (not sure if he ever played for this Boks) and the selection of Peter de Villiers spectacularly backfired. Same with Kolisi, he was selected because of PR.

30++ Years ago we had the same debate about Province vs Blue Bull players and why they got selected and we also ended up with players that should not have been selected. I still believe Tiaan Straus was the better player / captain and not Pienaar, the same happened with Teichmann vs Skinstead.
 
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MrGyre

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This is a bit of delayed post. The incident happened earlier this year, but its really starting fester. Now, this is not a post by a disgruntled parent. I think we all know that sport quota's exist, so regardless of my perceptions or views that fact still remains. I feel I have brought my kid up well and to not see colour. He has brown kids as friends so I believe we live in a pretty balanced environment.

I have a 10 year old son. He was invited to cricket trials for our district. He played incredibly well and there was a general consensus that he was one of the top kids there that day. Unfortunately he didn't make the team. Why? There was a quota that needed to be achieved, so some brown kids were picked ahead of him. My son got wind of this from one of the officials that day, it didn't phase him when he heard it earlier in the day until he put the two together. He now feels / knows this is why he didn't make the team.

Since the incident I have been trying to down play the whole issue. But he is not letting it go. The constant questions are:
  • Why are black people better than me?
  • Why am I being punished for something I never did?
I try be as diplomatic in my responses, but he is just not buying it. Basically my son sees the colour of people now, where prior to this incident he didn't.

Sports quota are a thing, so there is no point into arguing that they are not. He will experience this in the work place as well in the future, so there is no point in pretending they don't exist. But it got me thinking, basically we as a country are always going to be divided by race. It wont change until these policies change.

What was the white kids quota for the day? Why wasn't he better than the other white kids selected?
 
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