Springbok End of Year Tour - 2013...

[DJ...]

Scarra a hooker selected ahead of Alberts, A flank??

Pretty sure he means Schalk Burger...

Yeah I was trying to figure that out as well. Just never heard of Skalla...

 

[OrbitalDawn]

I dunno. I'm quite liking our loose trio, at the moment. Burger will be selected on past performance and reputation, not merit.

 

[DJ...]

Burger is not Bok material at the moment and I doubt he'll find his way back very easily considering our loose forward depth...

 

[MickeyD]

Burger is not Bok material at the moment and I doubt he'll find his way back very easily considering our loose forward depth...

I won't go that far... he needs more game time to get back to his own high standard of performance. My concern is that he'll permanently injure himself in the process...

 

[DJ...]

I'm not saying it's not possible. I just think that it will be incredibly difficult for him not just to find that sort of form again, but to have that form prove himself better than our existing talent. I wouldn't be surprised to see him as a specialist coach for one of the franchises in the next few years rather than vying for a Bok position.

But then again, Matfield is eyeing a possible Bok return...:erm:

 

[sand_man]

Burger's a legend!!

A fully fit Burger is possibly one of the most destructive forces in world rugby!! Thing is will he ever be fully fit again?

I believe the Meningitis caused some irreparable damage. In fact there many who of the opinion that he would never and/or should never play any rugby again let alone first class rugby!!

Yes, our loose trio is firing at the moment but I still believe or best loose forwards are either injured, recovering from injury or playing abroad.

Brussouw and Schalk, Pierre Spies, Joe Van Niekerk.

Joe and Pierre playing at the peak of their powers would keep a guy like Duane out the Bok starting XV indefinitely.

Likewise Schalk and Brussouw firing on all cylinders would keep Francois Louw out the starting XV.

Note, I'm not saying the Boks loose forwards haven't been playing well just that with the quality of loose forwards we produce, had they all been fit, of the current trio, I reckon only Alberts would be first choice.

edit: Forgot Juan Smith

 

[DJ...]

Spies is a stretch, but Joe Van Niekerk I'd love to see back in green and gold...

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Spies? Yeah, dunno about that. Vermeulen has impressed me a lot more than Spies did, even when he was on form. Vermeulen just offers more...

 

[Devill]

Burger had 0 impact in the CC final. He is far from any international form currently.

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

Anyone who mentions Spies as a missing 'best' player needs their head checked. Rugby acumen my arse.

 

[Noob-Noob]

Yeah i was talking about Schalk
i agree with Sand_Man,
Burger was one of the best, the energy he had was unbelievable, but i agree he is not on par at the moment, that's why i'm asking when he is back to his best (if ever)
I doubt they will play him at 6, he used to play fetcher at the boks but he has never really been a fantastic fetcher (stealing ball that is), he is more a Nr7 that can steal the odd ball, but again, HM wants a very big and hard number 7 who it seems likes hurts players , hence him playing Jaques Potgieter and/or Arno Botha in Alberts absence, will be very interesting to see what HM does with Burger if he regains form.

I also agree on Spies, when he is fit, and he has the form he had in 2006/2007 he is one heck of a Nr8, if he can ever regain that form, Vermeulen will struggle to keep him out, the problem is Spies has been a shadow of his 2007 self.
One thing i always wondered about, and call me crazy, but why not convert Spies into a Nr5 lock, he is tall, he is used in the line-outs allot, he steals a lot of balls in the line-outs as well, he is fast, athletic, strong as hell and clever....
This has nothing to do with rugby, but imagine you have a lock like this

Spies power cleans 135kg. He dead lifts 240 kg. He bench presses 165 kg. Only mildly impressed? Wait, here are some more. He is able to do pull-ups with a 50 kg weight between his legs. He can launch his 108 kg body 1.4m onto a raised platform, sprints for 835m before slowing on a repeated sprint-ability test and has a body-fat percentage of 6.5.

 

[Devill]

Haha, I have also thought of using Spies as a nr 5 lock

Back on point though, I can not see Schalk making it back. Our loose trio is really gelling well atm with Alberts being a titan on defence (think 19 tackles in Saturday's game), Vermuelen really looking more and more skillful at the back of the pack and F.Louw being given the freedom to poach the ball through the rest of the forwards doing a bit extra in the other facets of the game.

 

[sand_man]

At only 1.94m Spies is too short to play lock. Sure, he can jump which is why he is so effective at the tail of the lineout jumping against loose forwards between 1.90m-1.95m. I think he would get hammered jumping at the front of the lineout. Look how those shorts Samoan and Japanese locks battle.

Anyway, I remain a BIIIIIG Spies fan. We forget that he was in the starting lineup for the June tests and Duane only got the nod after Pierre tore his bicep against Samoa.

Yes, he hasn't been in the best form, yes, he may have been dropped in any event, but at 28 is he past his prime? Hell no!! Only a fickle, uneducated "fan" would write him off so early on in his career...

 

[thijei]

Team to play Scotland

Willie le Roux
JP Pietersen
Jaque Fourie
Jean de Villiers
Bryan Habana
Patrick Lambie
Fourie du Preez
Duane Vermeulen
Willem Alberts (Siya Kolisi)
Francois Louw
Flip van der Merwe
Bakkies Botha
Frans Malherbe
Adriaan Strauss
Gurthro Steenkamp.

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

Woot, tell BOTH of the best young locks in SA that they can fling poop from the sidelines ...... go HM

 

[Zyzzyva]

Haha, I have also thought of using Spies as a nr 5 lock

Back on point though, I can not see Schalk making it back. Our loose trio is really gelling well atm with Alberts being a titan on defence (think 19 tackles in Saturday's game), Vermuelen really looking more and more skillful at the back of the pack and F.Louw being given the freedom to poach the ball through the rest of the forwards doing a bit extra in the other facets of the game.

Injuries haven't really been a problem for our loose trio for awhile, but we won't always be so lucky. We need Schalk fit and in form as backup. HM wants to build a squad for the world cup.

It's the same idea with Victor.

 

[Devill]

Injuries haven't really been a problem for our loose trio for awhile, but we won't always be so lucky. We need Schalk fit and in form as backup. HM wants to build a squad for the world cup.

It's the same idea with Victor.

I doubt victor will make it to the next WC, and I think we have better than Schalk atm. Kolisi and Arno Botha spring to mind. Schalk will find it extremely difficult to get back into the practice group never mind the 22 man squad.

That being said.... Jake White brought back Bob Skinstad from nowhere

 

[Zyzzyva]

I doubt victor will make it to the next WC, and I think we have better than Schalk atm. Kolisi and Arno Botha spring to mind. Schalk will find it extremely difficult to get back into the practice group never mind the 22 man squad.

That being said.... Jake White brought back Bob Skinstad from nowhere

HM is big on mentorship. So i expect to see Victor around the squad in some capacity assuming he can still hold his own after a run with the bulls next year. He might not feature much, but with our current locks being wet behind the ears in terms of the line out he could add some mentorship value for a season or two.

Victor is still super fit, so he might surprise people next year. But only time will tell. If he is over the hill then he is over the hill.

Schalk i suspect could get his groove back assuming he goes half a season injury free. I doubt physically there is much wrong with him at this point, it's really just a mental thing. He may not have the desire for the rough stuff anymore. While i agree Kolisi and Arno Botha are both easy picks at the moment, come world cup time coaches tend to have an affinity for experience, so Schalk could find himself within the wider squad. He has made it clear he wants a place and is willing to fight for it.

But ja, next season will tell us all we need to know. It's quite possible, likely even , that both players have no business near the springbok squad anymore.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Where is Arno Botha, btw? Still injured?

 

[Zyzzyva]

Where is Arno Botha, btw? Still injured?

Yeah, as far as i know.