Sriwijaya Air flight SJ182 crash investigation

[The_Hobbit]

Sure, but you seem to ignore what I said and just waffle on based on your own bias. Ughh

You'd definitely feel that drop. Heck tour seatbelt would work damn hard to keep you in your seat if you were wearing it. If you weren't, you would be plastered to the bulkhead or ceiling.

 

[Gordon_R]

Location of wreckage found, in relatively shallow water:

Indonesia Sriwijaya Air Boeing 737 'black boxes' located

Signals are detected which officials think show the location of the Boeing 737's flight recorders.

www.bbc.com

More than 10 ships have now been deployed to the site with navy divers.

"We have detected signals in two points, this could be the black box," the chief of Indonesia's search and rescue agency, Bagus Puruhito, said.

 

[neoprema]

What has worked for me is the realisation that with 10 000 flights a day worldwide (if I recall correctly that was the norm before Covid) and so few incidents it really is a very, very safe human transport industry, and ACI also gave me much insight into the technology which made it much less flimsy in my mind.

That said, agree that all the aircraft sitting gathering dust is a new danger, and I still panic badly when flying in a thunderstorm.

i hate thunderstorms
in 2018 flew Alitalia to Italy and we literally flew on the outskirts of a storm for about 4 hours i thought it would never end - its like they tried following the damn thing. That A340 bounced and shoved left, right up down...pilots didn't say squat. At least on Qatar they usually make some kind of announcements from the pilot. My favorite being the one time the pilot said coming out of OR Tambo "Also on today's flight due to some bad weather we will all get a free seat massage. But just sit back and relax, it doesn't have any effect on the plane it is built for this". And it was quite rough the first 25mins but I felt better. I also felt better cause it was a 787 so i know it has high-tech and new tech, not like the ancient A340 alitalia used.

 

[neoprema]

So you'd rather take your chances with a car?

Yes. But the reason for that was discussed in a book, I can't remember the name now - I think it was Ask The Pilot or something or it was BA's Flying with Confidence.
People feel (perceive) they are safer in a car because they feel more in control, either by the fact they're driving it or that they can see and interact with the "controller" of the vehicle. Subconsciously, a lot of people fear what happens in flight because they can't see how its being handled, or actually be in control. I think i fall squarely into that category.

 

[neoprema]

Location of wreckage found, in relatively shallow water:

Indonesia Sriwijaya Air Boeing 737 'black boxes' located

Signals are detected which officials think show the location of the Boeing 737's flight recorders.

www.bbc.com

Positive news that they're should find the BB to get some answers, but very sad that it seems to indicate no survivors or even in tact bodies. Doesn't help bring closure to those poor families.

 

[Geoff.D]

i hate thunderstorms
in 2018 flew Alitalia to Italy and we literally flew on the outskirts of a storm for about 4 hours i thought it would never end - its like they tried following the damn thing. That A340 bounced and shoved left, right up down...pilots didn't say squat. At least on Qatar they usually make some kind of announcements from the pilot. My favorite being the one time the pilot said coming out of OR Tambo "Also on today's flight due to some bad weather we will all get a free seat massage. But just sit back and relax, it doesn't have any effect on the plane it is built for this". And it was quite rough the first 25mins but I felt better. I also felt better cause it was a 787 so i know it has high-tech and new tech, not like the ancient A340 alitalia used.

Like the hi-tech and new-tech in the MAX?

 

[R13...]

Yes. But the reason for that was discussed in a book, I can't remember the name now - I think it was Ask The Pilot or something or it was BA's Flying with Confidence.
People feel (perceive) they are safer in a car because they feel more in control, either by the fact they're driving it or that they can see and interact with the "controller" of the vehicle. Subconsciously, a lot of people fear what happens in flight because they can't see how its being handled, or actually be in control. I think i fall squarely into that category.

I feel the same. I know it is illogical but when I fly I have times when I fear crashing and dying. And most of it is that you're 30k feet up and worry if something goes wrong chances of survival are close to know. I don't get that feeling in a car even when I know it is many times less safe.

 

[neoprema]

Like the hi-tech and new-tech in the MAX?

ey, that thing is another whole can of worms. But I believe the problems are all fixed in the patch now. So I think it will join the rest of Boeing's reliable aircraft. Unfortunately the bitter taste of how it got to that point will remain with Boeing for many years, and they lost a LOT of trust with govt entities and public.

 

[Geoff.D]

Location of wreckage found, in relatively shallow water:

Indonesia Sriwijaya Air Boeing 737 'black boxes' located

Signals are detected which officials think show the location of the Boeing 737's flight recorders.

www.bbc.com

I love the language used in these reports.
"The signals could be the black boxes". What else could it be? Of course the signals are coming from the black boxes, just find them before the battery goes flat.

 

[neoprema]

I feel the same. I know it is illogical but when I fly I have times when I fear crashing and dying. And most of it is that you're 30k feet up and worry if something goes wrong chances of survival are close to know. I don't get that feeling in a car even when I know it is many times less safe.

Yep, its got a lot to do with pilot relationship too. I'm far more comfortable on flights where pilots communicate more with us. And on one flight I knew the pilot personally and well, and i slept like a baby, had no issues lol. Its amazing how the mind works. Lot of trust issues come to the fore which we link to fear of flying when its probably more around "fear of how someone we don't know from a bar of soap will react to a problem so i don't die".

 

[Brian_G]

i hate thunderstorms
in 2018 flew Alitalia to Italy and we literally flew on the outskirts of a storm for about 4 hours i thought it would never end - its like they tried following the damn thing. That A340 bounced and shoved left, right up down...pilots didn't say squat. At least on Qatar they usually make some kind of announcements from the pilot. My favorite being the one time the pilot said coming out of OR Tambo "Also on today's flight due to some bad weather we will all get a free seat massage. But just sit back and relax, it doesn't have any effect on the plane it is built for this". And it was quite rough the first 25mins but I felt better. I also felt better cause it was a 787 so i know it has high-tech and new tech, not like the ancient A340 alitalia used.

That's nothing - I flew through the middle of a mad thunderstorm from Singapore to Jo'burg, for hours across the whole bl00dy crossing of the Indian Ocean!! Wings looked like they may "flap right off" many times, horrible experience!

 

[ForceFate]

My worst fear is the vertical stabiliser snapping off.

 

[neoprema]

That's nothing - I flew through the middle of a mad thunderstorm from Singapore to Jo'burg, for hours across the whole bl00dy crossing of the Indian Ocean!! Wings looked like they may "flap right off" many times, horrible experience!

I've often wondered why they don't just change altitude and go above the storm. I know some storms can be very high but those plane's max ceiling is like 44 000 ft, at that height they should ride above most storms? And 44 000 is probably a very conservative safety number, they can prob hit 46-48k without issue - certain less issue than having the plane's components shoved and bounced around all of the place.

But in my discussions with Pilots it seems they have to obey their given flight altitude - and getting tossed about like a cheap kite is not a reason not to

 

[Sinbad]

You'd definitely feel that drop. Heck tour seatbelt would work damn hard to keep you in your seat if you were wearing it. If you weren't, you would be plastered to the bulkhead or ceiling. Data says this plane fell more than double the terminal velocity of a human being.

Incorrect to be honest. As long as the speed was constant you could quite normally sit in your seat. Only downward acceleration of more than 9.8 m/s2 would "plaster" you to the ceiling

 

[Geoff.D]

I used to enjoy flying locally when pilots were or were allowed to interact with passengers more.
In the old days when SAA ,was still something to be proud of, there was a pilot that did the milk run in SA, from Jan Smuts, to BFN, KB, Upinton, CT, etc.
We called him the happy appy. He flew that small Boeing like a fighter jet. It was great fun for many of us but plenty of passengers used their airbags.
Vertical take offs steep descents and emergency stops.
Then there was Sakkie van der Merwe, a legend. He continuously told you what was going on. Took you sight seeing if he was ahead if schedule, which was quite often.
On a flight to EL once, ( a notorious place with landings over the sea), we went through some of the worst turbulence ever. The plane dropped like a stone just short of the coast. Everything that was not tied down stuck to the ceiling for a while.
When it was all over and he had landed, he came on the speaker with these words or something similar.
"Sorry ladies and gentlemen for the rough landing, but I had to lean out of the window to remove the fish off my windscreen"

 

[Brian_G]

I've often wondered why they don't just change altitude and go above the storm. I know some storms can be very high but those plane's max ceiling is like 44 000 ft, at that height they should ride above most storms? And 44 000 is probably a very conservative safety number, they can prob hit 46-48k without issue - certain less issue than having the plane's components shoved and bounced around all of the place.

But in my discussions with Pilots it seems they have to obey their given flight altitude - and getting tossed about like a cheap kite is not a reason not to

From what I've learned, it seems to all be about profit - too expensive to fly higher. Typical...

 

[Brian_G]

I used to enjoy flying locally when pilots were or were allowed to interact with passengers more.

Best was the way kids could visit the cockpit.

In the old days when SAA ,was still something to be proud of, there was a pilot that did the milk run in SA, from Jan Smuts, to BFN, KB, Upinton, CT, etc.
We called him the happy appy. He flew that small Boeing like a fighter jet. It was great fun for many of us but plenty of passengers used their airbags.
Vertical take offs steep descents and emergency stops.

Funny, enjoyed my version of that too.

On a flight to EL once, ( a notorious place with landings over the sea), we went through some of the worst turbulence ever. The plane dropped like a stone just short of the coast. Everything that was not tied down stuck to the ceiling for a while.
When it was all over and he had landed, he came on the speaker with these words or something similar.
"Sorry ladies and gentlemen for the rough landing, but I had to lean out of the window to remove the fish off my windscreen"

Haha.
Also had that happen once, I think coming back from CT as a teenager. No fear then, was just a rollercoaster experience to me.

 

[Gordon_R]

Brief factual video by Juan Browne blancolirio:

 

[The_Hobbit]

Incorrect to be honest. As long as the speed was constant you could quite normally sit in your seat. Only downward acceleration of more than 9.8 m/s2 would "plaster" you to the ceiling

Constant?

Check that loss of altitude at the end.

 

[Sinbad]

A zero g nose over will accelerate you to 400km/h vertical velocity in 10 seconds.

That's not plastering you anywhere.