State capture inquiry begins

R13...

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Tend to agree with Holomisa with this one.
Yeah agree even though Holomisa and the opposition want it for selfish political ends. "Independent" commission reports ought to be released to the public immediately, not sure why they always go to government for "consideration" first.
 

TheChamp

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Tend to agree with Holomisa with this one.
I wouldn't have a problem with Zondo presenting it but I do think it's much ado about nothing, Cyril's witness status at the commission should not present any conflict of interest.

It looks like he is succumbing to the false notion that the commission is a court and witnesses are accused or implicated people. There has been enough delays already and I hope Holomisa and the others are not going to introduce another delays by wanting to drag this to court, I can totally see the EFF jumping onto the bandwagon.
 
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NarrowBandFtw

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Cyril's witness status at the commission should not present any conflict of interest
the fact that multiple high ranking members of the party he leads are indeed implicated does represent a conflict of interest though

doesn't really matter who presents it to parliament, as long as it is done without alterations and done in a timely manner

I can understand and would agree with anyone who is arguing against any further delays, CR can always present it right away and set a future date for announcing any actions, the report doesn't need to be kept hidden while he applies his mind
 

surface

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Yeah agree even though Holomisa and the opposition want it for selfish political ends. "Independent" commission reports ought to be released to the public immediately, not sure why they always go to government for "consideration" first.
What is the concern here? That CR will exclude specific parts when he presents the report?

Is this report going to be available to public after the presentation? If yes, then there should be no issue as we can check what CR didn't say. If no, then I can see a problem.
 

TheChamp

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the fact that multiple high ranking members of the party he leads are indeed implicated does represent a conflict of interest though

No it doesn't, at least not in the manner that conflict of interest is usually defined.

You are applying some guilty by association logic that I don't understand, politicians are implicated in wrongdoing all the time, it doesn't automatically render the others associated with them incapable of discharging their duties not does it present a conflict of interest.
 

ToxicBunny

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What is the concern here? That CR will exclude specific parts when he presents the report?

Is this report going to be available to public after the presentation? If yes, then there should be no issue as we can check what CR didn't say. If no, then I can see a problem.
The concern is that cyril will sit on it for ages while he studies it... And the ANC have been heavily implicated in the inquiry so there may be pressure to take sections of the report out before presenting to parliament
 

TheChamp

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Yeah agree even though Holomisa and the opposition want it for selfish political ends. "Independent" commission reports ought to be released to the public immediately, not sure why they always go to government for "consideration" first.
Most probably a procedural thing that has something to do with separation of powers.
 

surface

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No it doesn't, at least not in the manner that conflict of interest is usually defined.

You are applying some guilty by association logic that I don't understand, politicians are implicated in wrongdoing all the time, it doesn't automatically render the others associated with them incapable of discharging their duties not does it present a conflict of interest.
I put it to you that General is up to no good. Look at him smirking along with Cyril. Definitely the smirk of a person who received tender.

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TheChamp

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The concern is that cyril will sit on it for ages while he studies it... And the ANC have been heavily implicated in the inquiry so there may be pressure to take sections of the report out before presenting to parliament
He asked for four months in court papers, and I am sure Zondo and the commission will recognise if the report was altered, unless they are also in on the scam.
 
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surface

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He asked for four months in court papers, and I am sure Zondo and the commission will know recognise if the report was altered, unless they are also in on the scam.
I don't mean to be disrespectful here but Justice Zondo doesn't look like a person who will confront Cyril if report is altered. To me he sounded so ingratiatingly polite to most of the scumbags in front of him that it sickened me to bits. I am sure he meant well and he probably didn't want to antagonize but that is how came across to me. /shrugs

p.s. I could understand his mannerism if he was heading a CCMA hearing or resolving a union conflict.
 

R13...

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What is the concern here? That CR will exclude specific parts when he presents the report?

Is this report going to be available to public after the presentation? If yes, then there should be no issue as we can check what CR didn't say. If no, then I can see a problem.
It's the legal route but CR does have a vested interest in what, how and when the report gets released. The commission still has to consult with government in deciding what parts of the reports can be made public and which not. There'll be part that are classified, parts that can't be made public because of the names it names and recommendations for prosecution.
 

surface

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It's the legal route but CR does have a vested interest in what, how and when the report gets released. The commission still has to consult with government in deciding what parts of the reports can be made public and which not. There'll be part that are classified, parts that can't be made public because of the names it names and recommendations for prosecution.
Well, Justice Zondo could present the report and Cyril could politely ask him to omit certain things beforehand. Obviously no one is going to read ENTIRE report in parliament.
 

TheChamp

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I don't mean to be disrespectful here but Justice Zondo doesn't look like a person who will confront Cyril if report is altered. To me he sounded so ingratiatingly polite to most of the scumbags in front of him that it sickened me to bits. I am sure he meant well and he probably didn't want to antagonize but that is how came across to me. /shrugs
I am actually glad he was the one appointed to lead the commission instead of Mogoeng.

On being polite to scumbags, we are the public and can judge, convict and sentence people as we like, to him everyone who appears at the commission is a witness, no matter how scumbaggy they look or sound, it wasn't his place to judge the scumbags, that time is still coming.
 

R13...

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I am actually glad he was the one appointed to lead the commission instead of Mogoeng.

On being polite to scumbags, we are the public and can judge, convict and sentence people as we like, to him everyone who appears at the commission is a witness, no matter how scumbaggy they look or sound, it wasn't his place to judge the scumbags, that time is still coming.
Ironic that all of the main accused (especially Zuma) felt he was adversarial in his treatment of their witness. They went (those who did) in to fight and were combative regardless of how well they got treated all things considered. I am still not sure why the likes of Fraser weren't summoned.
 

surface

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Ironic that all of the main accused (especially Zuma) felt he was adversarial in his treatment of their witness. They went (those who did) in to fight and were combative regardless of how well they got treated all things considered. I am still not sure why the likes of Fraser weren't summoned.
It is victimhood strategy employed by scumbags. We got lot of victims here as well.
 

NarrowBandFtw

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it doesn't automatically render the others associated with them incapable of discharging their duties
no it doesn't, yet there is still conflict of interest

- if your child is accused of murder you as a parent will want to protect them
- if your child is accused of murder and also naming your name in his/her confession you as a parent may want to protect them, but you sure as hell will want to protect yourself

it doesn't mean you can't be impartial, it does however mean it's best for you to step aside completely to avoid even the appearance of impropriety

in CR's case sitting on it for any length of time will make many believe he's just buying time for the ANC to get its ducks in a row, no problem with him presenting the report to parliament, any delay tactics will be an obvious: ANC before the country move however
 
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ToxicBunny

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He asked for four months in court papers, and I am sure Zondo and the commission will recognise if the report was altered, unless they are also in on the scam.
I'm not necessarily suggesting it get altered per se... more that its initial release in parliament will be piecemeal and that civic orgs will need to fight in court to get the full report published.
 
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