'Stop bitching or get out!'

[jabulani]

In the past the SAPS have never been about fighting crime but rather as a tool of the state to suppress people ... to overcome this culture without drastic disruptive changes (such as firing the whole bloody lot) have been a rather difficult and still ongoing process.

Typical - blame it on apartheid. How many more decades of donut-munching do the ANC need to show some results in this regard? I mean 12 years of power and virtually nothing achieved.

 

[pupa]

Originally Posted by tibby.dude
If only it was limited to this forum and the Intarnet then I could just tune it out like I already do but I have to live and work amongst you in the real world (tm) .

What exactly is that supposed to mean?

Exactly what he says, if only he and the ANC could have a "Ignore List" like on the forum to cut out the truth and facts to reduce the background noise so they do not hear them, it could be well employed in the already incompetent GVT structure, Filter what they want to hear and believe, filter out the cry of the poor and suffering. Be as heartless and blameless as is Mugabe!

 

[Nod]

You make an interesting point. I always talk to everyone exactly the same way, irrespective of Race. Few things irk me more than someone talking to a black person as if he/she is retarded.

Indeed. But I've also found that sometimes when you greet a guard, they will only stare at you. Then after that, i don't greet that guard anymore. Cleaning ladies are always friendly though.

 

[kingmonty]

What I find absolutely astounding is that the Government is mandated by the constitution to protect all of South Africa's citizens. This is not an ammendment to the constitution or some hidden passage. It is contained clearly and irrevocably in the Bill of Rights within the first part of the constitution

It is the governments entire responsibility to ensure the safety of the citizens of this country. This ministers appallling outburst not only indicates to me that the ANC government has no interest in upholding the values and rights contained within the Constitution, but fails miserably to govern.

For anyone not familiar with the constitution, I herewith extract the relevant sections:

Human dignity

10. Everyone has inherent dignity and the right to have their dignity respected and protected.

Life

11. Everyone has the right to life.

Freedom and security of the person

12. (1) Everyone has the right to freedom and security of the person, which includes the right -

1. not to be deprived of freedom arbitrarily or without just cause;
2. not to be detained without trial;
3. to be free from all forms of violence from both public and private sources;
4. not to be tortured in any way; and
5. not to be treated or punished in a cruel, inhuman or degrading way.

(2) Everyone has the right to bodily and psychological integrity, which includes the right -

1. to make decisions concerning reproduction;
2. to security in and control over their body; and
3. not to be subjected to medical or scientific experiments without their informed consent.

Maybe a copy of the Constitution with this section highlighted should be sent to the minister. Frankly, he should be fired with immediate effect, as outbursts like this is exactly what scares International bodies like the UN, etc.

 

[kingmonty]

Well the ministers sentiments are very well but I think SA goverment should then negotiate the right of return of white setlers to our countries of origin.

This is my country of origin. I am not a brit or an Asian or an American. I am a South African and citizenship I have here is my birthright.

 

[arf9999]

One remarkable thing is that they are really catching and prosecuting criminals very quickly in some cases - surprisingly quickly - the Goldin/Bloom murderers and Gordon's Bay murderers and rapist were apprehended (and even prosecuted) with amazing speed.
(I will keep quiet about the prospects of these criminals staying off the streets...)

But the Goldin/Bloom murderers were arrested quite by chance, before the bodies were even found. It was not brilliant police work, but rather "good" luck and stupid (not to mention savage and inhuman) criminals.

In the cases where the criminals are reasonably intelligent and plan well, the police are hopeless - they lack the required skills and resources to make a difference. Look at the Airport heist, and subsequent Police Station heist of some the same money. Look at the Kebble case. Look at the Zuma case. Look at the laundry murders. For interests sake how many people that have been hijacked or have had their homes broken into do you know? And now think about how many of them have seen the perpetrators arrested? And in those cases, how often were they prosecuted successfully?

I do agree that fighting crime is everyone's responsibility to an extent. However we do have a constitutional right to safety, and the Minister cannot fob off complaints just because he thinks the complainers were benefiting under apartheid. ALL South Africans deserve better, and the blatant mismanagement of the Police by Selebi et al, is not helping matters.

 

[pupa]

This is my country of origin. I am not a brit or an Asian or an American. I am a South African and citizenship I have here is my birthright.

In their opinion we are Settlers, not citizens of this country, we are excluded in all forms of participation, they want to resort matters back to 1652. Only that would put IFP in power then? The mighty repected Zulu nation (by me at least) (Exept Zuma)!

 

[kingmonty]

In their opinion we are Settlers, not citizens of this country, we are excluded in all forms of participation, they want to resort matters back to 1652. Only that would put IFP in power then? The mighty repected Zulu nation (by me at least) (Exept Zuma)!

Correction. The mighty Zulu will have control of the Eastern Transvaal down to KZN. The San will have control of pretty much everything in the South-West to West. The Xhosa pretty much don't even feature.

 

[telkomsuig]

This is my country of origin. I am not a brit or an Asian or an American. I am a South African and citizenship I have here is my birthright.

If you are white most of the population will disagree if you listen to government etc retoric...

 

[Angelo]

SA passport acceptable? not if you are white dude... people frown at you if you have an SA passport and label you as an ex-apartheid thug. ppffffttt...

Interesting.........

 

[pupa]

Correction. The mighty Zulu will have control of the Eastern Transvaal down to KZN. The San will have control of pretty much everything in the South-West to West. The Xhosa pretty much don't even feature.

Well that would still be better than what we have now. I rainbow mess, flavored with corruption!

 

[Angelo]

Here's the real kicker.

How often do you say a kind word or crack a joke with somebody who works for you, either the cleaning lady or the security guy who mans the gate at your office or even your home, do you treat them with respect or do you dismiss their contribution to your life. You may pay their salary but treating other people with respect starts with your own attitude.

(Disclaimer, this post is not directed at anybody but rather an attempt to make people introspective regarding their attitude to other people)

Good point.

 

[Angelo]

Well the ministers sentiments are very well but I think SA goverment should then negotiate the right of return of white setlers to our countries of origin.

Why, did they facilitate the arrival of white settlers? I'm sure those who want to leave know their way out.

 

[ignacio]

In their opinion we are Settlers, not citizens of this country, we are excluded in all forms of participation, they want to resort matters back to 1652. Only that would put IFP in power then? The mighty repected Zulu nation (by me at least) (Exept Zuma)!

How are you excluded? Can you not vote? Or are you just complaining because being in a democracy will tend to mean a minority will have a minority say? Maybe we should come up with 4 black votes = 1 white votes system... to give whites the say they "deserve".

 

[pupa]

How are you excluded? Can you not vote? Or are you just complaining because being in a democracy will tend to mean a minority will have a minority say? Maybe we should come up with 4 black votes = 1 white votes system... to give whites the say they "deserve".

Back on the old fart??? A vote means nothing! Ditto, if democracy is only taken that far. Really a very simplistic view. What is BEE/ AA and all the new laws that exclude the "previous advantaged" or includes only "previous disadvantaged" a democracy where the GVT of the day excludes PPL based on skin colour. There is certain criteria to be uphold if you want to be called a democracy, like a constitution! else it's not a democracy at all. IMHO!

 

[ignacio]

Back on the old fart??? A vote means nothing! Ditto, if democracy is only taken that far. Really a very simplistic view. What is BEE/ AA and all the new laws that exclude the "previous advantaged" or includes only "previous disadvantaged" a democracy where the GVT of the day excludes PPL based on skin colour. There is certain criteria to be uphold if you want to be called a democracy, like a constitution! else it's not a democracy at all. IMHO!

I am very much against BEE/AA - since they are inherently racist and we need to move away from race-based policies (also, there are big problems with how they are currently implemented). BUT there must be something in place to redress the economic/power imbalances of the past - because - again - black economic empowerment is critical for the future of this country. These policies are temporarily in place to drive black economic empowerment... without them do you really expect the the rich and powerful to freely let blacks into the economic/power fold? Yeah - with people like you around, there is limited chance of that.

 

[pupa]

I am very much against BEE/AA - since they are inherently racist and we need to move away from race-based policies (also, there are big problems with how they are currently implemented). BUT there must be something in place to redress the economic/power imbalances of the past - because - again - black economic empowerment is critical for the future of this country. These policies are temporarily in place to drive black economic empowerment... without them do you really expect the the rich and powerful to freely let blacks into the economic/power fold? Yeah - with people like you around, there is limited chance of that.

That the crux, You can by better ways have black economic empowerment by using incentives, reduced interests, loans etc. You should not do it by exclusion, doing harm to the "incumbents" based on skin colour and bigger harm by the brain drain and negative attitudes. Its like the rugby team, let each earns his place or pecking order. But its not only that it the fear, the incompetence as the Zim farmers have proven! and many examples creep out locally! Deny them (the white's coloureds and Indians) all any way of competing!

 

[ignacio]

I assume by this

You can by better ways have black economic empowerment by using incentives, reduced interests, loans etc.

you are saying along racial lines - so it not much different from BEE/AA.

 

[pupa]

I am very much against BEE/AA - since they are inherently racist and we need to move away from race-based policies (also, there are big problems with how they are currently implemented). BUT there must be something in place to redress the economic/power imbalances of the past - because - again - black economic empowerment is critical for the future of this country. These policies are temporarily in place to drive black economic empowerment... without them do you really expect the the rich and powerful to freely let blacks into the economic/power fold? Yeah - with people like you around, there is limited chance of that.

I really cannot help my parents conceived me and have proved I am supperior than most in certain aspects. That last part of your sentence just proved how feeble a person you are, fear that such a small minority as myself limits the chances of the black population. Shame ! Stop discrimination against these PPL and see attitude change!

 

[Vrotappel]

The Minister clearly shows that he is incompetent and has no regard for the constitution of South Africa. If the president has any backbone he will fire him immediately. Useless ministers should no longer be tolerated.

On the one hand the ANC is b1tching about the brain drain and on the other hand they tell us to fukc off. They really should have a good look at themselves and start to act responsibly and be accountable for their actions. They are NOT making South Africa great.