Storm destroys massive solar plant in Upington

These are multi-year projects, so it could be by the time it comes online.
Looking at this study might work out cheaper in the SA grid with our existing pump storage and low-level base coal.
More capacity during the day does mean the existing quick dispatch can actually be used like it was meant for during the duck curve.


Lupus said:
And the storage for that new PV? Is that cheaper?
Click to expand...
 
DStvNothingOn said:
These are multi-year projects, so it could be by the time it comes online.
Looking at this study might work out cheaper in the SA grid with our existing pump storage and low-level base coal.
More capacity during the day does mean the existing quick dispatch can actually be used like it was meant for during the duck curve.

Click to expand...
Ah so you're also calling for more loadshedding during peaks. Got you.
 
SauRoNZA said:
It often works better under cloud cover.
Click to expand...

Nothing about cloud coverage increases the light energy for both Solar cells and CSP (Concentrated Solar Power) which relies more on thermal radiation. So I'm not sure where you read this or is there extended sarcasm here?
 
Moosedrool said:
Nothing about cloud coverage increases the light energy for both Solar cells and CSP (Concentrated Solar Power) which relies more on thermal radiation. So I'm not sure where you read this or is there extended sarcasm here?
Click to expand...

Cloud edge is a thing that will push your solar array well beyond its rated capacity because as I understood it actually increases radiation.

I’m no scientist by any means but I have literally seen it do this with my array outputting over 7kW on a 6.3kW array.

But it’s extremely circumstantial and as @Lupus says probably doesn’t amount to higher outputs overall.

Cloud-Edge Effects on Solar Arrays – SKY LIGHTS

sky-lights.org sky-lights.org

www.blueelectrics.co.uk

Maximising Solar PV Efficiency: Understanding the Cloud Edge Effect - Blue Electrics

As homeowners increasingly turn to solar power to reduce their energy bills and carbon footprint, understanding the factors that can […]
www.blueelectrics.co.uk www.blueelectrics.co.uk

Basically very few clouds will result in higher outputs than completely clear skies.
 
No no no, as per my original post. since PV is cheaper the pay out for a CSP plant could hopefully build a larger PV plant.
the PV peaks during the day, since we now have more day time capacity we can keep the quick dispatch & Peak shavers which are currently being used as base capacity, be used for there intended use during peak

Lupus said:
Ah so you're also calling for more loadshedding during peaks. Got you.
Click to expand...
 
SauRoNZA said:
Cloud edge is a thing that will push your solar array well beyond its rated capacity because as I understood it actually increases radiation.

I’m no scientist by any means but I have literally seen it do this with my array outputting over 7kW on a 6.3kW array.

But it’s extremely circumstantial and as @Lupus says probably doesn’t amount to higher outputs overall.

Cloud-Edge Effects on Solar Arrays – SKY LIGHTS

sky-lights.org sky-lights.org

www.blueelectrics.co.uk

Maximising Solar PV Efficiency: Understanding the Cloud Edge Effect - Blue Electrics

As homeowners increasingly turn to solar power to reduce their energy bills and carbon footprint, understanding the factors that can […]
www.blueelectrics.co.uk www.blueelectrics.co.uk

Basically very few clouds will result in higher outputs than completely clear skies.
Click to expand...
Eeeh not really either. You'll average out. You just need a cloud to hang about to long on the sun. Same as a veld fire blocked a good portion of my generation 7 months ago :(
Anything that restricts the sun will restrict generation.
So a cloudy day even partially cloudy will not give you as much generation as a sunny day. Even with cloud flaring it may just be an average to good day.
 
SauRoNZA said:
Cloud edge is a thing that will push your solar array well beyond its rated capacity because as I understood it actually increases radiation.

I’m no scientist by any means but I have literally seen it do this with my array outputting over 7kW on a 6.3kW array.

But it’s extremely circumstantial and as @Lupus says probably doesn’t amount to higher outputs overall.

Cloud-Edge Effects on Solar Arrays – SKY LIGHTS

sky-lights.org sky-lights.org

www.blueelectrics.co.uk

Maximising Solar PV Efficiency: Understanding the Cloud Edge Effect - Blue Electrics

As homeowners increasingly turn to solar power to reduce their energy bills and carbon footprint, understanding the factors that can […]
www.blueelectrics.co.uk www.blueelectrics.co.uk

Basically very few clouds will result in higher outputs than completely clear skies.
Click to expand...

I get it now.

But this must be rare and not often as you say cause the shadow of such a cloud should literally have a visible caustic around it due to the concentrated light. Can see it happening, haven't seen it happening.
 
DStvNothingOn said:
No no no, as per my original post. since PV is cheaper the pay out for a CSP plant could hopefully build a larger PV plant.
the PV peaks during the day, since we now have more day time capacity we can keep the quick dispatch & Peak shavers which are currently being used as base capacity, be used for there intended use during peak
Click to expand...
Sure, but generally the peakers aren't running during the day. Unless there are issues, one of the big issues with solar is, if there are clouds and now you've come to rely on them for day time usage, you'll need to fire up peakers.
It's why Germany, Texas and South Australia have the most expensive electricity, that buffer is there.
 
Lupus said:
Yeah solar is really known to work well when it's under snow or cloudy. The wind might have helped but the solar not so much.
Click to expand...
Solar works for me even on the cloudiest winter days. I don't get as much, but I get a useful amount. Now, if i could cover my entire roof, and get a battery 10 times larger... Say maybe a 2nd life EV battery, then I'd be set even in the middle of winter.

Looking past the noise, at the future, solar panels are currently on course to get as cheap as plywood. Batteries, especially Sodium Ion, will likely end up cheap as bricks.

Already the economics of it, when and where there's nothing and nobody holding it back, are tasty AF.
 
Moosedrool said:
I get it now.

But this must be rare and not often as you say cause the shadow of such a cloud should literally have a visible caustic around it due to the concentrated light. Can see it happening, haven't seen it happening.
Click to expand...

Yeah like I said it’s very circumstantial.

It’s easy to witness on peak power output (input? I guess?) when it goes way beyond the actual array rated capability and I’ve seen it happen for minutes at a time and then got bored and did something else.

But yeah we aren’t talking about all clouded up days with no sun here, but more normal summer days with some cloud clover that’s passing over.
 
The Trutherizer said:
Solar works for me even on the cloudiest winter days. I don't get as much, but I get a useful amount. Now, if i could cover my entire roof, and get a battery 10 times larger... Say maybe a 2nd life EV battery, then I'd be set even in the middle of winter.

Looking past the noise, at the future, solar panels are currently on course to get as cheap as plywood. Batteries, especially Sodium Ion, will likely end up cheap as bricks.

Already the economics of it, when and where there's nothing and nobody holding it back, are tasty AF.
Click to expand...

Yeah I reckon if I added just 2.5kW on East and West side I’d pretty much never need Eskom in summer and possibly winter either.

My biggest issue is getting more sun hours due to the roof arches stealing at least an hour in the morning and the late afternoon so my actual useful production is from 8-5.

Adding just small additions East and West would add probably an extra 3 hours to that.
 
The Trutherizer said:
Well... yes.

rmi.org

The Rise of Batteries in Six Charts and Not Too Many Numbers - RMI

The unstoppable rise of batteries is leading to a domino effect that puts half of global fossil fuel demand at risk.
rmi.org rmi.org
View attachment 1803558

Not sure what the cadre tax adds here in SA. But... Definitely, yes.
Click to expand...
It is actually specific energy they are talking about, not energy density.

Nevertheless, let's compare the best and greatest lithium batteries, to .... cow shìt...

Screenshot 2025-03-13 at 08.20.18.png




Screenshot 2025-03-13 at 08.20.48.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density



Oh right, two orders of magnitude less than literal shìt. Really good stuff there.
 
DStvNothingOn said:
It might not actually be bad news.

The price of PV panels has dropped so much that CSP is becoming less economically viable. With the payout from the existing plant, it may be possible to replace it entirely with a PV-based system that offers a larger production output at a lower cost. This shift could lead to increased efficiency, reduced maintenance, and overall better long-term sustainability for solar energy generation.
Click to expand...
I saw some pictures and it looks like they use mirrors to reflect light on to a central point.

I don't think this is a PV plant.
These are from a watsapp vid I got.

1741847458054.png

1741847391778.png


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