(Supplier Prostar) Sako Inverter with Lithium Charging Function ...

The_Traveller

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Ok guys, so its confirmed that the next batch of off-grid inverters coming from Prostar will have Lithium Charge function.

I booked one set for myself and even ordered 4 x 12v100Ah LiFePO4 batteries.

I saw the spec sheet claiming 3000 cycles at 80% DOD . The batteries 12v batteries have built in balancing etc. to keep them protected from over charge and over discharge. The Inverter also has the necessary charger to protect the batteries. Unfortunately I don't know what I'll be paying for each 12v battery yet , but I was told around R7k.

This Inverter has Lead Acid charge functions as well, so its not like you have to only buy LFP.

I think they working on the Low Frequency Solar Inverter with Lithium charging as well. Lets see ...

Anyone else interested in Lithium batteries, please contact them, maybe the price will come down if they order more.
sales@prostar.co.za
 

oober

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How much are they charging you for those batteries? And which brand is it? Do they only sell 100ah 12V packs?
 

mmacleod

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I've been speaking to the guy as well. (Thanks the_traveller for the lead)
From the spec sheets he gave me they are 'sako'..

Below is his last reply to me, I queried on lower pack sizes as I'd probably rather want to assemble a 50Ah 48v pack - I'll update if more info becomes available.
I finally got the tech spec for the battery. It is for a 3.2v cell , but I
will be having the factory build 12v cells with the BMS built in .
The Inverters I will supply with Lithium charging will have the necessary
protection also built in so that there is no additional
equipment my clients would need to buy when using LFP batteries.

I was told that 12v10ah up to 400ah is available , so just waiting for them
to give me prices which I will forward to you.

And his initial reply on pricing
The Estimated pricing on a 12v100ah LiFePO4 battery is R6500 , but this price is based on just 4 pcs. I will try and negotiate better
deals as the orders increase.

Perhaps we could get a group buy going and see if it will help the prices.
 
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mmacleod

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The smart thing to do would be for a local company to import the individual cells and assemble the different sizes with local made BMS, instead of importing different size pre-assembled ones.
 

oober

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The smart thing to do would be for a local company to import the individual cells and assemble the different sizes with local made BMS, instead of importing different size pre-assembled ones.

Personally I think one should wait a year or two before starting to move over to lithium. Give Elon some time to ramp up production on his powerwalls. I'm a bit hesitant to make a 30k+ investment and then the claims of 3000 cycles at 80% DOD are wrong etc.
 

mmacleod

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Personally I think one should wait a year or two before starting to move over to lithium. Give Elon some time to ramp up production on his powerwalls. I'm a bit hesitant to make a 30k+ investment and then the claims of 3000 cycles at 80% DOD are wrong etc.

Maybe I am just stupid, too cynical or simply completely missing something, but I really fail to have the excitement that everyone else is having over powerwalls.
I don't see it bringing anything major new to the table for the mass market, it is a very well timed move (latching on to a technology that was heading towards prime time anyway) and it probably will make him a fortune from a bunch of rich people but it brings nothing new per se just a slicker better advertised more polished and more expensive version of what is already there, sort of like what apple did with smart phones.
So while it is great for Musk it means very little for me the consumer.

Now there will of course be some positive effects, in the long term (5 years?) we can expect to see market prices drop from the movement it will create which is great, but there is no way I will ever be buying a power wall myself unless I suddenly become far more wealthy, instead it will probably end up being from some South African company that gets smart enough to import cells from china and assemble into affordable local solutions, and all of this probably would have happened anyway - so I'm just failing to feel the excitement.

Anyway the above aside - it is not hard to find numerous accounts of LiFePo4 living up to expectations - it is not that new of a technology that it hasn't already been quite well tested in various market segments, so there is no real reason to doubt the technology, the exact 3000 claim may not be 100% though none of the current lead acid cycle claims are exact either, marketing department is always going to stretch reality, but from all real world accounts they are closer to expectation than you may think.
Of course one could doubt whether a certain manufacturer is good or not, thats another story..


Anyway the above aside, as a not-super-rich guy who needs - only a small amount - of batteries now, I don't really have the luxury of waiting a few years to see if Musks new 'rich person toy' lives up to expectations or not.
I can either spend the money I do plan to spend on low quality lead acid, and accept that I will have to spend yet more money in a few years time, or if I can find LiFePo4 at a good enough price (I only really need maybe 48v 50Ah for starters) I can buy something that will last much longer and by the next time I'm shopping the market should look much better.
The price points are such that considering the higher end lead acids is silly as at that point I may as well just get LiFePo.

So at the end of the day it is (1) Up front cost and (2) Long term financials - if I can scrape together enough for 1 and 2 makes sense then I must go for it :p

I agree though, I probably wouldn't spend 30k on any battery technology at this point, not Lead Acid which is on its way out, and not LiFePo4 at these prices... As I'm shopping for a much smaller size than you seemingly though ~12k is something that I can possibly consider though I would have to think long and hard about it :p

I'd much prefer the second scenario buying crappy batteries that I know will die fast seems a horrid waste, but currently the prices (to get them here in SA) do still look a bit high so I may have to resign myself to the first, if I were overseas I think the LiFePo4 would be a no brainer.
Eagerly waiting to see what the final pricing comes in at.
 
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genicide

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Wh not buy 180 ah gel vrla for r3500 a bat, its good and the guarantee is 12 years
 

mmacleod

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Because paying R3500 for a battery with specs like "Extremely high cyclic life" and no actual numbers seems like a great way to flush money down the toilet. Especially when the same battery is selling cheaper elsewhere...
 

The_Traveller

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The smart thing to do would be for a local company to import the individual cells and assemble the different sizes with local made BMS, instead of importing different size pre-assembled ones.

I prefer having to buy everything from one Supplier because I know the entire system is tried and tested.

For example, if I had to buy the inverter alone, and buy the lithium battery from another supplier, I would then need to worry if the charging specs of the inverter is compatible with the battery.

There are many things that can go wrong and this aint a cheap exercise.
 

mmacleod

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Another data point just to put things in perspective :)

For curiosity sakes I got some LiFePo4 pricing direct from Chinese suppliers, these are just two random suppliers so obviously no guarantee of best pricing etc. someone who knows the market better can probably get better pricing.
These cells were aluminium cased ones which are supposedly better quality than the plastic cased ones like in this thread.

For 2000 10Ah 3.2v cells, landed insured (CIF) in CT, it works out to $11 a cell.
For 300 200Ah 3.2v cells, landed insured (CIF) in CT, it works out to $240 a cell.

There are of course extra costs still to be added on top of that, clearance etc. I'm not experienced enough with shipping to know how much that would add.


Scale seems to make a huge difference.
e.g. For the 10Ah cells (not including shipping)
100 pcs - $12
500 pcs - $11.50
1000 pcs - $11
5000 pcs - $10.50
10000 pcs - $10
40000 pcs - $9
For larger quantities the shipping per piece probably works out quite a bit less as well.

Which is sort of what I was getting at that someone should import just the cells instead of packs - it is 'easy' to assemble different size packs from the cells locally, and you get better 'scale' by ordering lots of the same cell.

My takeaway from this is that if somebody with enough money were to put there weight into importing a large number of LiFePo4 cells, they could probably create a local market for them and make a killing, probably a great business opportunity for some rich guy :)
For smaller orders the shipping is a killer, I sadly don't have that kind of money, so for now I'm going to minimise my battery requirements and just go with some very small lead crystal or SLA and then look at more serious batteries a few years from now.

Other takeaway is that the prostar pricing is not bad for what they are offering at this point in time... (but above what I'm looking to spend)
 

falcon786

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What happened to Lsheed and the group buy?

Those were supposed to be well priced.
 

The_Traveller

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The other great feature of this inverter is that you can disable the charger. So this means you can use whatever external charger you want.
 

heartbroken

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What happened to Lsheed and the group buy?

Those were supposed to be well priced.

I think he is busy banging around China and will only report back when he is done.

The other great feature of this inverter is that you can disable the charger. So this means you can use whatever external charger you want.

Do you have a link to a spec sheet for the inverter? How many randelas do I need to part with for one?
 
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