Swedish PM says integration of immigrants has failed, fueled gang crime

Grant

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The problem is they took immigrants from countries that will change it. So religion wise, most of the poorer middle east flooded to Australia and Europe. In Europe they now want to make the rules. In Australia they wanted to start a caliphate. Europe for hundreds of year fought religion wars. Its going to backfire terribly on them now. Especially in France and Germany. Ironically most I know from around Berlin want to get out. Crime is nuts. The problem is the people thats moving were already problematic in their own country, now they want to goto Europe thats mainly Christian, and they are unhappy with it, and want to change the rules. I like the Swiss way. Either you comply or you get out. The Austrians is the same

Australia on Perth side now has the problem where they brought in soo many people for the mines, a lot of mines has closed. Now the people are sitting without jobs and flooding into the cities. Crime has gone up a lot.

Its not that great.
Sounds like you are describing Africa's history there. Colonisers arriving, then wanting to convert the natives to the religion they brought with them.

And Australia - the people that moved there were already problematic and convicts in their own country. So Britain put them on a boat and shipped them down under, much to the chagrin of the local population.

History repeating.
 

surface

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Did you miss this post?

Am not saying this is normal or common but some people in this country bask in the reflected glory that their ancestors supposedly brought civilization to this country while ignoring the fact that not treating all people equally isn't very civilized.
So ungrateful of you. Granted there was some naughty discrimination for couple of years but didn't they compensate by providing you with all the scientific inventions till date? Where would you be if wheel wasn't invented. What about trains? Where would you be without internet?
 

deathprophet215

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The question was, why do you, feel that you should be able to take credit for all of that because of the colour of your skin? Again, Europeans brought a lot of good things to this country but they brought a lot of misery too, if you want to bask in the glow of their achievements then you need to take responsibility for the bad too..

Alternatively, you can just accept that no one should feel grateful/hateful to you simply because you have the same skin colour as the settlers in the past and we should all judge each other based on our own achievements, not those of our forebears.
They brought a lot of good things with much less misery and ultimately improved the standards of life, somehow you want to overlook that fact due to your dishonest nature. Why do I feel like I'm a continuation of my ancestors? Why do Zulus have their traditions, revere and seek to live up to their ancestors? Why do Chinese? Why do Jews? It's not unique, in fact it's pretty commonplace. The difference is that due to the dominance in recent history of European civilizations, dishonest individuals such as yourself want to imply that Europeans don't have any reason to feel the same way. Guess what, when Europeans did all these things, they did so for their descendants, like me. Also, I'll counter your weak logic with a question of my own. If Europeans shouldn't consider the accomplishments of their ancestors as their own, which is a ridiculous notion in the first place, and their accomplishments have been merely cultural, therefore not genetically related, why is it that black Africans having occupied more minerally advantageous territories didn't produce the same level of civilization even in their slave empires set up to sell slaves to Mecca? I'm implying that there are inherent essences and qualities to a people, as is observed throughout history.

Secondly, since this point seems to be difficult for you to grasp having alluded to it in previous posts, how can I feel guilty for my ancestors having massively improved the lives of Southern Africans? To imply one should feel guilty, implies the idea that one subjugates himself to the idea that Europeans, one in-group, is inherently responsible for the existence of another, another in-group perceived by the previous one to be the out-group. In one of my previous posts I refer to the concept of nepotism, which is a concept within psychology and especially the branch known as evolutionary psychology. It's a psychological mechanism which became dominant in societies which thrived and overcame rivals, and as such is a highly effective natural behavior. If you look at Indians in silicon valley for instance, they utilize nepotism to elevate their perceived in-group to positions which they may not otherwise have been inline for, since there were qualified candidates within the country. But you can already appreciate the power of nepotism, and the natural implication thereof which leads to policies that are preferential towards one in-group and detrimental to another.

The point I'm trying to make is that nepotism, which includes all forms of discriminatory behavior including racism and sexism, occurs naturally within all peoples, why is it especially wrong for my particular in-group to have done the same thing that Indians do in silicon valley at the expense of other hardworking individuals? Or what the Chinese do, the exact same thing in any country they settle since it's both natural and effective? If we dishonestly look at this country through the lens of "one people", which is deluded, then the ANC have absolutely failed, but if you look at it through the lens of the ANC employing a form of nepotism where they put party and relatives before race (which is a second-layer priority which is why they have exclusionary policies towards whites) and country, then they've absolutely been massively successful since they've all become disproportionately rich and improved on their previous circumstances.

In nature not only is it counterintuitive to bend over backwards to accommodate and empower another group at the expense of yours, it's deeply unnatural. The egalitarian model of human relations that you seem to think is absolute, is merely a recent fad, and it's an idea which all non-Western civilizations have learned is a self-destructive one. I don't hate myself, nor do I want to destroy myself, therefore I don't adhere to self-destructive ideals. In order for me to feel guilty about another group, I would have to first consider it my responsibility to see to their wellbeing, a sentiment which is deeply unnatural and therefore I do not. So your question has been concisely answered.

So your supposed alternative is an example of a false dichotomy, unfortunately for you those aren't the only options available since the egalitarian model of of human relations isn't the only option to choose from. Get educated. And lastly, your point with regards to judging people on an individual basis is also only optional, as previously stated, perceived human groups have inherent qualities and essences, great individuals still arise out of collective, cultural frameworks, and culture, as exhibited by early African Christians and early European Christians, is primarily determined by the inherent nature of peoples. I can absolutely respect great individuals of any group, that doesn't mean we're part of the same group and that I should practice individualism, the same ideology which is so self-destructive and turning the rulers of the 19th and mid 20th century into the beggars of the future.
 
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deathprophet215

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244
Sounds like you are describing Africa's history there. Colonisers arriving, then wanting to convert the natives to the religion they brought with them.

And Australia - the people that moved there were already problematic and convicts in their own country. So Britain put them on a boat and shipped them down under, much to the chagrin of the local population.

History repeating.
The problem with your argument is that nobody forces you to wear pants, use the Roman alphabet or all the science and medicine European colonization has afforded you, you choose to keep it because it improved your life. You're a beneficiary.
 

azbob

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So ungrateful of you. Granted there was some naughty discrimination for couple of years but didn't they compensate by providing you with all the scientific inventions till date? Where would you be if wheel wasn't invented. What about trains? Where would you be without internet?
He'd be a slave eating other slaves, that's where.
 

Cray

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The strange thing is the muslims are terribly unhappy living in muslim countries, so they move to Christian countries, then once they have arrived, they are unhappy with the Christian laws so they start wanting to change it into a muslim country. I have stayed abroad in an country where that happened. Mosques are being opened up next to churches with the call of prayer played same time to chase away the church.

And then many go on about how they hate Israel. But wake the hell up.

According to the bible the Jews are the holy people, and the bible says, he who turns against the jews will be wiped out. So yip thats happened in Israel and it will happen elsewhere. Even the Saudis now made peace with the jews.
o_O
 

deathprophet215

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Really now....'most of Africa'

Y'know, I was following along quite nicely and nodding my head in places until I hit this bit....then it all fell to pieces.

You're clearly well educated and able to mount a cogent argument, then your credibility falls apart due to a dishonest generalisation.

So you're the opposite of 'white man bad' ie 'black man bad' - horseshoe theory gains more credence everyday.

Quite literally the majority of countries in Africa practice slavery, and these aren't primarily at the hands of foreigners, they're black people enslaving black people in general. So your hair-splitting about me offending your sentiments simply show that your reaction is emotional rather than logical. Fortunately for us both, facts and logic aren't based on consensus or popular opinion.
 

deathprophet215

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Talks about cannibalism being practiced today in most of Africa. Provides a link to pygmies being eaten in Congo in 2003.

“…intellectually dishonest.”


I could go on forever but you get the point, cannibalism occurs all over Africa, including South Africa. The only exception to cannibalism, but not slavery, is North Africa which is primarily inhabited by Berbers and Arabs.

Once again, hair-splitting which is ignorant of reality.
 

azbob

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I could go on forever but you get the point, cannibalism occurs all over Africa, including South Africa. The only exception to cannibalism, but not slavery, is North Africa which is primarily inhabited by Berbers and Arabs.

Once again, hair-splitting which is ignorant of reality.

Still intellectually dishonest. Cannibalism occurs all over the world.

 

deathprophet215

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I could go on forever but you get the point, cannibalism occurs all over Africa, including South Africa. The only exception to cannibalism, but not slavery, is North Africa which is primarily inhabited by Berbers and Arabs.

Once again, hair-splitting which is ignorant of reality.
To also expand upon this point, cannibalism may not be as prevalent in other regions of the world, but is still practiced by individuals on an individual basis in such regions. The difference between comparing the situation in Africa to other regions is that it's less of an individual phenomena, and one which is encouraged in certain indigenous practices. I don't consider the idea of eating another person's heart or penis to gain their power to be the hallmarks of a good spiritual or religious practice.

I'm much less educated on the subject of South America, but am aware of certain religious groups which also revere cannibalism, which I find to be irrational.
 

deathprophet215

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So, whose clone is deathprophet215? A member since 2013, grand total of 136 posts suddenly ramping up posting activity, the content of which, frankly, would make most white supremacists jealous?
You have to resort to the accusation of "white supremacy" because somebody dared to point out the lack of logic perpetuated in your narrative? I'm so offended.
 

deathprophet215

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Still intellectually dishonest. Cannibalism occurs all over the world.

Already answered since your avenues of dispute are fairly easily predicted. What you'll find if you do read the wikipedia instead of skimming, is that in other regions it's not a cultural or religious phenomena, it's practiced either during wars and times of famine to counter starvation, or an individual decision by people who are clearly mentally ill.
 

AfricanTech

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They brought a lot of good things with much less misery and ultimately improved the standards of life, somehow you want to overlook that fact due to your dishonest nature. Why do I feel like I'm a continuation of my ancestors? Why do Zulus have their traditions, revere and seek to live up to their ancestors? Why do Chinese? Why do Jews? It's not unique, in fact it's pretty commonplace. The difference is that due to the dominance in recent history of European civilizations, dishonest individuals such as yourself want to imply that Europeans don't have any reason to feel the same way. Guess what, when Europeans did all these things, they did so for their descendants, like me. Also, I'll counter your weak logic with a question of my own. If Europeans shouldn't consider the accomplishments of their ancestors as their own, which is a ridiculous notion in the first place, and their accomplishments have been merely cultural, therefore not genetically related, why is it that black Africans having occupied more minerally advantageous territories didn't produce the same level of civilization even in their slave empires set up to sell slaves to Mecca? I'm implying that there are inherent essences and qualities to a people, as is observed throughout history.

Secondly, since this point seems to be difficult for you to grasp having alluded to it in previous posts, how can I feel guilty for my ancestors having massively improved the lives of Southern Africans? To imply one should feel guilty, implies the idea that one subjugates himself to the idea that Europeans, one in-group, is inherently responsible for the existence of another, another in-group perceived by the previous one to be the out-group. In one of my previous posts I refer to the concept of nepotism, which is a concept within psychology and especially the branch known as evolutionary psychology. It's a psychological mechanism which became dominant in societies which thrived and overcame rivals, and as such is a highly effective natural behavior. If you look at Indians in silicon valley for instance, they utilize nepotism to elevate their perceived in-group to positions which they may not otherwise have been inline for, since there were qualified candidates within the country. But you can already appreciate the power of nepotism, and the natural implication thereof which leads to policies that are preferential towards one in-group and detrimental to another.

The point I'm trying to make is that nepotism, which includes all forms of discriminatory behavior including racism and sexism, occurs naturally within all peoples, why is it especially wrong for my particular in-group to have done the same thing that Indians do in silicon valley at the expense of other hardworking individuals? Or what the Chinese do, the exact same thing in any country they settle since it's both natural and effective? If we dishonestly look at this country through the lens of "one people", which is deluded, then the ANC have absolutely failed, but if you look at it through the lens of the ANC employing a form of nepotism where they put party and relatives before race (which is a second-layer priority which is why they have exclusionary policies towards whites) and country, then they've absolutely been massively successful since they've all become disproportionately rich and improved on their previous circumstances.

In nature not only is it counterintuitive to bend over backwards to accommodate and empower another group at the expense of yours, it's deeply unnatural. The egalitarian model of human relations that you seem to think is absolute, is merely a recent fad, and it's an idea which all non-Western civilizations have learned is a self-destructive one. I don't hate myself, nor do I want to destroy myself, therefore I don't adhere to self-destructive ideals. In order for me to feel guilty about another group, I would have to first consider it my responsibility to see to their wellbeing, a sentiment which is deeply unnatural and therefore I do not. So your question has been concisely answered.

So your supposed alternative is an example of a false dichotomy, unfortunately for you those aren't the only options available since the egalitarian model of of human relations isn't the only option to choose from. Get educated. And lastly, your point with regards to judging people on an individual basis is also only optional, as previously stated, perceived human groups have inherent qualities and essences, great individuals still arise out of collective, cultural frameworks, and culture, as exhibited by early African Christians and early European Christians, is primarily determined by the inherent nature of peoples. I can absolutely respect great individuals of any group, that doesn't mean we're part of the same group and that I should practice individualism, the same ideology which is so self-destructive and turning the rulers of the 19th and mid 20th century into the beggars of the future.

Of course, when nepotism is used to "elevate' Incompetence then everything falls apart - SA is a perfect case study.

The world is complex - there is no single perfect system.
 

rvZA

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Millions told them it would not work. They did not listen. The government should be overthrown by its people, leaders arrested, prosecuted in courts and executed for treason. New governments should be established and immigrants deported and borders closed down tightly - even if it means for tourism and work for at least a decade or two in order to normalize the situation in the country.
 

deathprophet215

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Messages
244
Of course, when nepotism is used to "elevate' Incompetence then everything falls apart - SA is a perfect case study.

The world is complex - there is no single perfect system.
Nepotism could also be utilized to elevate an in-group which is not incompetent, but the ANC is clearly an example of the opposite, although it proves why it's remained an evolutionary psychological mechanism since even idiots can become the elite and wealthy by means of nepotism.
 

Cray

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They brought a lot of good things with much less misery and ultimately improved the standards of life, somehow you want to overlook that fact due to your dishonest nature.
I never once said Europeans haven't brought benefits to this country, now who is being dishonest? It's easy to say that the benefits outweigh the misery when you belong to the race that the misery didn't affect.
 

AfricanTech

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Quite literally the majority of countries in Africa practice slavery, and these aren't primarily at the hands of foreigners, they're black people enslaving black people in general. So your hair-splitting about me offending your sentiments simply show that your reaction is emotional rather than logical. Fortunately for us both, facts and logic aren't based on consensus or popular opinion.

Please don't die on this hill.

I'm enjoying your input - decent insights and cogent arguments.

When you talk kuk and generalise from specific incidents that are not enshrined within a legally accepted framework (like slavery used to be) then all you do is undermine your own credibility.

In short, your argument stands quite well on its own without making up stuff.

Show me a single instance in Africa where slavery and cannabilism is legally sanctioned.

As an aside, it's the same error that defenders of Apartheid make - they ignore/forget that it was a legally imposed and sanctioned framework ie it was the Law with the full mechanism of the State in support - the difference between that and 'naturally' occurring social organisation is a chasm the size of the Grand Canyon.
 
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