Sygnia retirement annuity vs allan gray retirement annuity

Pegasus

Honorary Master
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Last few years on the JSE have been range bound. Thankfully, our pension fund at work is a smooth fund and has been delivering CPI+ 3-4% over last few years. Being a smooth fund you generally don't get to fully experience the market highs and lows, but generally 'grow' in a consistent fashion.

Those smoothed funds are good to buy when you're 90 years old. (Totally my opinion)

One big problem with them (other than the fees), is that when there has been a bull market for a few years and you decide to retire, you miss out on those returns.

You'll be getting (an example) 5 % returns, when the market has been returning 15%.
For your 1/3 lump sum you may get 1 000 000, the other 300 000+ in returns you would have gotten in the fund won't be paid to you as the trustees hold that back in order to pay smoothed bonuses.
So you can miss out big time.

You're going to want to speak to a decent financial advisor before you cash out on those plans.

Some of those funds will start paying negative returns in this climate.
That'll be happening in the next few months, unless something dramatic happens.


P.S. Do you have the name of the smoothed fund paying CPI + 4%. That seems a bit on the high side.
 

BloodBurner9000

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Apr 26, 2012
Messages
111
I have RA's at both Sygnia and Allan Gray, and am happy with both, with contributions split equally into their balanced funds. My investments had similar performance, with no clear winner after 5 years. I agree with another poster that Allan Gray's customer service is super professional, perhaps better than Sygnia. I am also very happy with Sygnia's interface.

My expectation is that with the current market turmoil, active Allan Gray's balanced asset allocation should beat passive Sygnia's. If you are close to retirement or or thinking of doing a section 14 transfer right now, perhaps Allan Gray is the better option.
 

Siyachuma

Active Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
43
Last few years on the JSE have been range bound. Thankfully, our pension fund at work is a smooth fund and has been delivering CPI+ 3-4% over last few years. Being a smooth fund you generally don't get to fully experience the market highs and lows, but generally 'grow' in a consistent fashion.
Hello, are you referring to AG balanced fund
 

Siyachuma

Active Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
43
Those smoothed funds are good to buy when you're 90 years old. (Totally my opinion)

One big problem with them (other than the fees), is that when there has been a bull market for a few years and you decide to retire, you miss out on those returns.

You'll be getting (an example) 5 % returns, when the market has been returning 15%.
For your 1/3 lump sum you may get 1 000 000, the other 300 000+ in returns you would have gotten in the fund won't be paid to you as the trustees hold that back in order to pay smoothed bonuses.
So you can miss out big time.

You're going to want to speak to a decent financial advisor before you cash out on those plans.

Some of those funds will start paying negative returns in this climate.
That'll be happening in the next few months, unless something dramatic happens.


P.S. Do you have the name of the smoothed fund paying CPI + 4%. That seems a bit on the high side.
You speak to a very NB matter;costs. How do you compare costs
 

Siyachuma

Active Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
43
I have RA's at both Sygnia and Allan Gray, and am happy with both, with contributions split equally into their balanced funds. My investments had similar performance, with no clear winner after 5 years. I agree with another poster that Allan Gray's customer service is super professional, perhaps better than Sygnia. I am also very happy with Sygnia's interface.

My expectation is that with the current market turmoil, active Allan Gray's balanced asset allocation should beat passive Sygnia's. If you are close to retirement or or thinking of doing a section 14 transfer right now, perhaps Allan Gray is the better option.
Okay so not much of a difference in performance. What about costs and net returns
 

BTTB

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Feb 6, 2004
Messages
8,195
All these RAs are Section 28 Compliant which I think is a good thing. It diversifies risk but unfortunately misses opportunities when they arise. The problem is you cannot time the market as opportunities present themselves so its time in the market that counts and how to keep pace with or ahead of inflation in South Africa. Our currency is structurally a weak currency over time so it would make sense to always have a high portion of foreign exposure in your portfolio.
But this theory fails each time when opportunity presents itself locally and there are lots currently.

If you are young you could take the risk of betting on the South African economy entering a new or second honeymoon phase after the 2019 Elections if that outcome is positive. You could potentially then take a dart board and throw your dart at any of the good listed SA Inc shares on offer and probably double your money but you have to start taking that risk now while they are "cheapish". If you are in your late 40s, 50s or about to go on pension then Section 28 all the way in my opinion, you really cannot afford to take any risks in your portfolio, especially not SA Inc shares with all the uncertainty of the unknown outcome of the 2019 National Elections in South Africa.
And then there is somewhere in-between, try hedging your money against inflation and Rand devaluation in Kruger Rands and rental properties in known good areas.
Strictly speaking your age determines your risk profile but a mixture of all of the above could also be good. I have actually 2 RAs, one which is a passive Section 28 compliant one and the other is in a non passive Personal Share Portfolio managed by myself and the manager of that portfolio.

My latest tact in choosing a particular share is to open the PDF documents available online of the Balanced Funds of Coronation, Foord and Allan Gray and see what are their top 10 holdings and add some of those to my Share Portfolio. If one or more of those top 10 holdings exceeds around 5% in that PDF document, expect to see selling on the market as they reduce their exposure and bank their gains, also keeping with their exposure limits which I expect is no more than 5% in a Top30 Share. Compare all 3 Companies top 10 holdings and choose a couple that you have confidence in. Maybe the holdings that are in the 2 to 4% category as 5% always suggests that they have run up a bit already and there will be selling into that strength.

I also found trying to buy a cheap share usually ends up getting even cheaper and you losing half your initial capital. Buy shares that are trending, in others words buy high and sell higher. The trend is your friend.
Never sell too early but at the same time bank profits.

Share tips is your worst advice. There are forums like Sharenet where the main topic of discussion is Steinhoff!
That is not investing, that is speculation. Its not helpful and serves a few people who play in that space.

One thing I have noticed more-so the last 2 years ... if any particular share goes out of favour or the slightest bit of bad news like the Company missing their earnings targets, the share sells down heavily often over-correcting.

Its painful to be in this market at present and I say well done to any person that can call it right.
 

Hamster

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Hamster

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All these RAs are Section 28 Compliant which I think is a good thing. It diversifies risk but unfortunately misses opportunities when they arise.

It concentrates risk. Reg 28 is bullshit way to keep money in SA. The only benefit of it is that you always know where your money is (more or less).

I'd much rather have a Global 1200 RA. That's real diversification.
 

Hamster

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Btw, if you come across Santam Glacier and it sounds to good to be true, that'll be because it is.

They promise you a lot of money back but you only benefit from it if you never move your fund away from them and let it mature. In those 3-4 decades you pay high fees and lose out on a lot of compound growth. So basically, the "bonus" you get is actually the money they "robbed" from you.

That's my opinion of it anyway.
 

KleinBoontjie

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Messages
14,607
Definitely not Sygnia. A lot of rumours going around that some shady $#:+ goes on behind the scenes. Can't be trusted.

Jir, people have been punting Sygnia on MyBB for years, this is the first time I see a negative reply about Sygnia. What happened?
 

BTTB

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Messages
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It concentrates risk. Reg 28 is bullshit way to keep money in SA. The only benefit of it is that you always know where your money is (more or less).

I'd much rather have a
It concentrates risk. Reg 28 is bullshit way to keep money in SA. The only benefit of it is that you always know where your money is (more or less).

I'd much rather have a Global 1200 RA. That's real diversification.

. That's real diversification.
I looked on itransact webpage now, please post a link to this Global 1200 RA. The link I found had no information.

As I mentioned before I have 2 RAs.
1) One is passive and invests according to Section 28 rules and basically the RA is balanced 3 ways between Foord, Coronation and Allan Gray, all in their Sect 28 balanced funds. Its made around 3% the last 2 years. I actually cant see how more diversified you could be here. Your risk is spread across 3 different Companies who in their own turn are already diversified.
2) The other RA is in a Personal Share Portfolio administered by Momentum but the day to day work is done through a PSG trading account who advise you what to buy and sell etc. The benefit here is you can have 30% in a Global Feeder Fund Unit Trust plus still buy shares that are dual listed and make their earnings outside South Africa. You could technically be 100% international. At any stage if you so choose you could also be 100% in cash. Its really up to you and the PSG Manager. Dividends on the shares you own are paid with no penalties into your trading account. At the end of the day it is high risk but potentially can return far better returns that the 3% but if you get it wrong .... well you guess.

For people who don't want involvement on a day to day basis in their retirement annuity, an RA that is Section 28 compliant managed by professionals, takes away that stress from you the investor. It might be paltry returns initially but over time it is still savings which you would not have had and something you or your creditors cannot touch.
 

Hamster

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I looked on itransact webpage now, please post a link to this Global 1200 RA. The link I found had no information.
You misunderstood me. You said Reg 28 is a good thing because it brings diversification. I disagree because it concentrates your investments in South Africa which is a tiny spec in the global context.

There is no such thing as a Global 1200 RA in South Africa. What I meant is that I wish they'd do away with reg 28 and allow me to use something like ASHGEQ as an RA.

TL;DR: reg 28 is a handicap (for the most part)

For people who don't want involvement on a day to day basis in their retirement annuity, an RA that is Section 28 compliant managed by professionals, takes away that stress from you the investor.

Reg 28 has nothing to do with regards to whether or not an RA is managed by professionals or not. It is simply a bunch of rules telling you only 30% of your investmentd may go offshore, 5% or something must be cash/bonds, who can use it when etc.

You can build your own RA from a selection of funds you choose and "manage" yourself and still be reg 28 compliant. Just ask @supersunbird
 
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