Taxation

OrbitalDawn

Ulysses Everett McGill
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
40,532
#81
You wouldn't pay rates if you're off the grid, would you? If you use municipal services you'd pay, though.

koeksGHT said:
We have an established education system, grade school, high school, bachelors, masters, phd. Why does this not take affect when running a political system, votes have a weight based on education.
Probably because it's a bad idea. It would disenfranchise millions of people who will still be effected by the decisions of the government, with little or no say in it.

And as I say, there are plenty of people with little or no formal education that are smarter than people with tertiary educations. How does it make sense to disenfranchise them?
 

Swa

Honorary Master
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
18,237
#82
You wouldn't pay rates if you're off the grid, would you? If you use municipal services you'd pay, though.
Tell that to the city of Cape Town. And you'll still pay property tax in any case.

Probably because it's a bad idea. It would disenfranchise millions of people who will still be effected by the decisions of the government, with little or no say in it.

And as I say, there are plenty of people with little or no formal education that are smarter than people with tertiary educations. How does it make sense to disenfranchise them?
It's equally bad to have 90% of the country who's dependent on the other 10% make the decisions. Democracy is a farce. It's two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.
 
Joined
Apr 5, 2018
Messages
2,809
#83
Tell that to the city of Cape Town. And you'll still pay property tax in any case.


It's equally bad to have 90% of the country who's dependent on the other 10% make the decisions. Democracy is a farce. It's two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.
Adam Smith set out some principles of taxation. See http://economicsconcepts.com/canons_of_taxation.htm. We seem to have lost sight of them to a large degree, which to me is a pity.
 
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
11,783
#84
You wouldn't pay rates if you're off the grid, would you? If you use municipal services you'd pay, though.



Probably because it's a bad idea. It would disenfranchise millions of people who will still be effected by the decisions of the government, with little or no say in it.

And as I say, there are plenty of people with little or no formal education that are smarter than people with tertiary educations. How does it make sense to disenfranchise them?

Yes lets start with an ex president who has zilch qualifications. Or most of the parliament members who are the same.

Everyone should have a vote, some should just count more than others. Mostly a standard competency for extra vote weight.

Like question 1, do you want
A) Democracy
B) Socialism

Or question 2, do you want all tax permanently removed

See how that vote ends and what happens
 

OrbitalDawn

Ulysses Everett McGill
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
40,532
#86
Yes lets start with an ex president who has zilch qualifications. Or most of the parliament members who are the same.

Everyone should have a vote, some should just count more than others. Mostly a standard competency for extra vote weight.

Like question 1, do you want
A) Democracy
B) Socialism

Or question 2, do you want all tax permanently removed

See how that vote ends and what happens
All of that sounds very silly, tbh. :confused:
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
4,899
#87
My tax here in Norway is more than what my entire gross salary was in RSA.

I happily pay it to keep things as they are.

* Free schooling
* Free university
* Free Medicare
* Free dentistry for kids up to 17
* Decent recycling
* Almost no litter around
* Huge safety net for the unemployed and disabled
* Above means almost no crime
* Decent roads
* Snowplowing of roads every morning
* Civil prisons
* Loads of paid vacation time (gov controlled)
* Mandatory 3rd party insurance for all drivers
* Mandatory EU checks / AA checks for car roadworthiness every 2 years. (not strictly taxes, but just had to throw that in there)
* A bunch of other stuff

The one thing that DOES piss me off is the R5k a year TV license fee. :mad:

But yeah all said and done, we pay a ton in taxes, but it works because the majority are paying taxes to take care of the minority. This system won't stand a snowballs chance in hell if it was implemented in SA without a MUCH stronger work force and much lower dependency load.
Don't forget about culture
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
4,899
#89
I don't think collectivism/individualism is necessarily left/right or liberal/conservative. As you can find examples of both collectivism/individualism in all these labels. That's the part I struggle with. I'm "oversimplifying" it by distancing the incoherent/inconsistent labelling with the fundamental logic of ascribing to either one or the other.

To further corrupt the left/right/liberal/conservative labelling, I'd say it is possible that an individual can ascribe to a multitude of collectivist ideals irrespective of being liberal or conservative. Hell, I don't even know which one I am any more (liberal or conservative), but I would say I tend to be individualist.

Anyway it's just a thought that bothered me when I always associated collectivism with communism/socialism (On the left) but then also looked at the far right and saw equal parts collectivism (Fascism). That's when the left/right labelling broke down for me as logically inconsistent - and the individual/collectivist terminology made more sense or was more consistent/easier to apply. I then started to question when is collectivism ever not dangerous (A threat to someone) and couldn't really come up with an example. Maybe I'm wrong though, I'm a layman with all these things.
In the middle leaning towards individualism is the best spot to be

(in my opinion)
 

Bobbin

Executive Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
5,942
#90

rambo919

Expert Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
2,033
#91
It's an unbalanced and naive piece.... once this kind of scum grabs power it does not let go without a bloody fight. Any organized tax revolt will cause a heavy crackdown of some kind and the situation will be used as an excuse for whatever happens to fall apart at the time.

Also the dayilymaverick is delusional in general anyway, liberel elite bubble throwing a perpetual hissy-fit.
 

Swa

Honorary Master
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
18,237
#92
https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opi...-it-is-perfectly-legal-to-join-the-taxrevolt/

Just sharing an article I just read, stumbled upon it while going through reddit feed. Interesting, but not sure if worth pursuing (For those who have that much money to spare), what the consequences would be at scale and what relevant investment platforms are out there. Not philosophy but while on the subject of tax...
Not the problem of pursuing but rather what use will it be. The purpose of a tax revolt it to not pay tax. Instead it will end up with SARS anyway but through a different channel. Plus it's not feasible on a large scale.
 
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