Television Licenses - The Truth Revealed

[Ivan Leon]

Sentech will eventually switch over to the DVB-T2 Digital broadcasting standard in 2013 (hopefully!) - and they will then be mandated in terms of the ITU regulations to switch OFF the old analogue terrestrial broadcast signal that has been used since 1975 to carry our TV signals by 2015 - the cut off date.

Does that mean that as ALL old TV sets and receiving equipment, such as add-on PC TV cards, MNET decoders, VCR's, DVD / HDD recorders will NO longer be capable of receiving ANY analogue TV broadcasts, that if you do NOT switch over to the new DVB-2T standard (via a set-top box which is connected to your old analogue equipment in order to continue to receive TV Broadcasts), that you will then NOT require a TV licence AT ALL, as you will be unable to receive any TV broadcasts any more?

Also, why does the Government add an ad-valorem tax onto DATA (PC) Monitors, which do NOT HAVE TUNERS AT ALL, using the pathetically lame excuse that they 'may be connected to devices that CAN receive TV broadcasts?'

All a Data Monitor does is produce a picture via a data signal (composite / component / RGB / D-SUB / DVI / HDMI) - and irrespective of what sort of signal it it receiving (PC data - Media Player - External TV Tuner / DSTV HD or SD PVR or conventional DSTV decoder - Gaming Console - Video Camera - DiVx / MP4 player, etc) - it still does NOT have ANY tuner in it - analogue OR DVB-T2 - so we are being ripped off by this added punitive tax!

Surely the external devices that CAN receive the TV Broadcasts should have this ad-valorem tax added on - such as DVD / HDD recorders and PC TV cards - and NOT the Data Monitors!

 

[threegee]

To this end, the SABC is legally obliged to –
- inform;
- educate;
- entertain;

You forgot

BRAINWASH


from your list.

 

[threegee]

1.8 Cancellation of a Television Licence
Similarly, a TV licence does not "lapse" and isn′t cancelled "automatically" if a licence holder stops paying his/her licence fees. Specific procedures for cancellation of a television licence are laid down in regulations under the Broadcasting Act. A TV licence is cancelled only once ALL moneys outstanding on an account have been paid, and on receipt of an affidavit (sworn statement) indicating what has become of the television set previously in the possession of and licensed in the name of the licence holder.

Bollocks !!!

Anyone who has ever tried to cancel a TV license will know the absolute frustration and stupidity one has to deal with from the SABC.

- I cancelled my license 9 years ago when I left the country.
- I paid ALL outstanding fees
- I faxed the SABC full details of the final payment
- I faxed the SABC copies of my air tickets and visa's for emigration to Canada
- I phoned after faxing and had that confirmation all documents were received and all was in order, account was paid up and license had been CANCELLED

4 months after arriving in Canada, the person who bought my business in SA emailed me a letter from the SABC for outstanding fees. I once again emailed him ALL the faxes I had sent and he resent them and we never heard another word.

Our move to Canada did not work out for us and we returned to SA, one of the first things we did was buy some stuff to furnish the apartment we were living in and we bought this from Edgars.

One week after this we received that LOVELY red colored envelope in the mail from the SABC saying we owe them money, lots of it. (fees outstanding had now accumulated to a year's worth)

Once again sent through all the documentation, spoke to their legal department, once again all was OK ... or so I thought.

Then for nearly 5 years NOT A WORD

Then out of the blue I once again start receiving threats from the SABC's collection agency VWM Attorneys. VWM was the third collection outfit from the SABC I had dealt with in all that time. It seems each time the SABC changes collection agencies they get all the outstanding records mixed up and people who have sorted out problems get harassed all over again ..... and when I say harassed I mean HARASSED. I have never ever spoken to such rude, arrogant and obnoxious people in my life as the people from VMW attorneys. They seem to think they are above the law .... being lawyers can you blame them?

Anyways .... the battle continued till 6 months ago when I finally handed this matter over to someone else to handle for me and FINALLY this is sorted out.

Cancelling a TV license with SABC is no easy feat I promise you and I bet there are a hundred thousand South African's who've been down this very road. You're best off never even having a TV license to begin with, especially when you get harassed in such a manner when actually try and cancel it.

Another thing people should be very aware of it the use of an Edgars account. Edgars is like the antichrist when it comes to their database of account holders. Edgars regularly sells their database to other companies and I've caught them red handed on numerous occasions and they still do it. Edgars also shares their database with attorneys, collection agencies etc. So the moment you conduct an Edgars transaction everyone else in SA who may be looking for you suddenly knows where you are.

I do have a TV several years after returning from Canada and the matter with SABC is now settled (in writing) and now I can continue being a good little citizen and paying them their annual license, but I certainly did not need the harassment and blatant ignorance and stupidity of the SABC who simply could not find the right buttons to click to cancel a license in the first place.

If I had known any better from the word go 14 years ago, I probably would never have registered a TV license in the first place.

SO .... MR Original Poster

If the SABC wants people to pay their TV licenses then maybe they should get their act together with stuff like this. I certainly don't and won't encourage people to register a TV license knowing what I have been through.

I don't even think you can cancel your TV license even when you DIE and I am pretty damn sure there thousands of widows out there who can attest to this, through their grieving I can just imagine those harassing letters, emails and SMS's from VWM Attorneys.

Once you get a TV license YOU WILL pay for it in LIFE and DEATH and the government would not have it any other way !!!

 

[caroza]

Different problem

I have a different situation (and a lawyer friend says he thinks I'm on pretty strong ground). I bought a TV about 5 years ago in a moment of weakness, sold it after 3 months (I prefer not to have one in the house) but carried on paying the license because I was thinking of getting a USB receiver (and also because I haven't gotten round to doing the whole cancellation rigmarole!). Moved house 3 years ago, have several times notified them of the address change via email and changed my address via their website (which doesn't do it automatically - obviously submits a transaction which a person who doesn't do his job has to process), and they still have not processed my change of address. And if you try to check online the system is usually unavailable.

This year I decided not to pay until they changed the address, as I can't use a TV license to purchase another TV or receiver if it keeps being sent to the wrong address. Emailed them accordingly, no response, and have duly been handed over. I've emailed their attorneys (undoubtedly a bunch of bottom feeders) with a copy of the web form input and a screen shot of the entirely predictable "system unavailable" message from the online details enquiry - that probably won't get a response either. But lawyer friend says he thinks that is a material failure to meet their mandate, so we'll see.

They're beyond belief. They've managed to trace my late father's account to me and started harassing me (started about 10 years after he died & is for the accounts he "hasn't paid" since his death). I gave them one written notification that he was dead after the first one, and then started getting requests for death certificates, etc, addressed to The Executor at my home address. As I was his heir but not his executor, this boils down to straight extortion, so I ignored everything. (The old man was military and his attitude would have been "if you can find me, you can sue me" and he would have enjoyed leading them a dance - and I've thought of doing the change of address to Cloud Nine as well!!! I do like the alternate contact details in hell bit!)

After several years of very peremptory SMS's I eventually got a call from VVM and I had a lot of fun yelling at them, threatening their senior partners with the law society, criminal charges and restraining orders, and pointing out that I did not work for the SABC and was not prepared to do 30 seconds of clerical work to help them get documentation that was a matter of public record.

(So now you know where your license fees really go - on the lowest class of debt-collecting sharks who are probably raking it in without actually ever getting any settlements.)

But it's ludicrous to have to go to these lengths. They are grossly incompetent and corrupt and unfortunately they're answerable to nobody - they should have been shut down years ago. If the law is regarded as a social contract between society and government, then this is a law which should be resisted because the SABC flagrantly flout the spirit of their mandate, while the poor idiots who have to deal with them are expected to obey the letter of the law or be harassed for the rest of their lives.

 

[Bobbin]

Bloody pushovers the lot of you

 

[Roger.Wilco]

After several years of very peremptory SMS's I eventually got a call from VVM and I had a lot of fun yelling at them...

I've had it with these people at VVM. I've been trying for years to cancel a tv license, because we have another one on my wife's name. This concept is apparently too difficult to understand. I've sent them everything from a marriage certificate, the other tv license etc, and just when I think it's sorted out, I get another sms or email from a different call centre agent, and the whole things starts from the beginning again. I honestly don't know what to do anymore, my outstanding fee's are just going up every year, even though we keep paying for the other license.

 

[caroza]

I've had it with these people at VVM. I've been trying ....

Well, I can only sympathise. I see this latest demand is from a bunch called Munnik Basson Dagama who also seem to have an entire infrastructure dedicated to this. I expect the better class of shark won't deal with the SABC any more....

 

[FNfal]

IT still burns my a$$ to pay TV liscence

 

[burisch]

I was eventually able to find the relevant government gazette where it stated you had to produce an affidavit. I duly completed the affidavit form that was emailed to me by tvlic.info@sabc.co.za (NB their reply-to address is incorrect, tvlicinfo@sabc.co.za, so when responding to any mails from them ENSURE that you get the correct address). They are right, it is the law. That they can't point to the relevant legislation beggars belief, but the fact remains that they are within their rights to employ these bottom-feeders (VVM) and their insistence on an affidavit is entirely legal.

I got the affidavit stamped and signed at the cop shop (the cop barely glanced at the contents), scanned and emailed it to tvlic.info@sabc.co.za. I'd suggest that this is exactly what you do if you have issues with TV licensing.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Point me to this piece of legislation..

stating that it exists is not good enough unfortunately.

 

[burisch]

Dude, google is your friend. Unfortunately for you I can't be arsed to sit through the two hours it took me to find it ... again. Get off your lazy bum and look it up, otherwise take my word for it.

 

[caroza]

I was eventually able to find the relevant government gazette where it stated you had to produce an affidavit. I duly completed the affidavit form that was emailed to me by tvlic.info@sabc.co.za (NB their reply-to address is incorrect, tvlicinfo@sabc.co.za, so when responding to any mails from them ENSURE that you get the correct address). They are right, it is the law. That they can't point to the relevant legislation beggars belief, but the fact remains that they are within their rights to employ these bottom-feeders (VVM) and their insistence on an affidavit is entirely legal.

I don't have a problem with them requiring an affidavit. I have a problem with their systems being so poor that complying with the law becomes virtually a full time job, and I have a problem with having to pay for a license which I don't have the use of because they are too incompetent to process an address change. You should not, for example, have to accept any liability whatsoever for the fact that they cannot construct an automated email system with the correct reply-to address. As far as I'm concerned, if they fail to meet their mandate as a public body, then citizens can and should act against them - they work for us, not vice versa. If we all obeyed the law all the time, I would not have the vote (being female), and neither would any of my black friends in this country, so I'm all for civil disobedience - in the SABC's case, the more the merrier!

(A friend of a friend used to pay his license short by 2 or 3 cents every year, just to foul up the system, because he had all sorts of anarchic objections to being "just a number". He ended up being handed over for 35 cents or something. Now that sounds like a viable form of mass action.... )

In fact I managed to log on (eventually) this evening, the address has been changed (hence the peculiar weather, no doubt!!) and I have paid the license fee. When the license eventually arrives, I will do the necessary to cancel it.

As for my dad's account, issuing threats to me for failing to settle someone else's debt, for which I am not liable, is extortion, i.e. it's a criminal offence, and VVM clearly understand this because I haven't heard a peep out of them since the phone call in question (they're after him, not me, but they've traced his records to my contact details). The process they need to follow is to check the population register to confirm the death, consult the court records to find out what happened to the estate in question, who the executors were and to whom the assets of the deceased estate were eventually transferred (me).

At that point, if and when they approach me in my capacity as my dad's heir, I will happily provide them with an affidavit to the effect that the TV was stolen out of his house three weeks after he died in 1994 (which it was). But pigs will fly before they actually do some work, and until then, it is not my liability, I will not lift a finger to help them sort out their disastrous record keeping, and I will press charges against them if they continue to harass me. Giving in to bullies and taking on any more responsibility for the SABC's incompetence than you absolutely have to just perpetuates the dreck.

 

[burisch]

Totally sympathize. Yes this bulls**t needs to be sorted out. The vehement desire in me to throw the birdie at these guys is only marginally smaller than my desire to comply with the law and not have hassles in my life ... fact remains, this is a giant turd that needs to be pooper-scoopered. Actually this whole issue needs to be highlighted and blown up in the media, and in fact your case is a prime candidate for such exposure. (unfortunately we don't have the concept of class-action suits in South Africa!!).

My emphatic suggestion to you is to approach the media and get this into the glare of the public spotlight. I'd suggest Alex Elisseev, he's been spot on before for me. Otherwise, Carte Blanche. Or basically any media outlet that will listen and publish.

In South Africa, civil disobedience will just get you a subpoena, a fine, and a rap on the knuckles by the judge. However we do have (for now at least! Damn to all hell this 'secrecy bill') freedom of the press -- and I really encourage you to take full advantage of that.

Oh and my dad died last month -- dreading the VVM extortion that's bound to ensue.

Get out there and give them hell! We're all counting on you!

 

[caroza]

@burisch, sorry to hear about your dad - that's always difficult regardless of how grown-up you are.

Are you his executor? That would require you to sort out transfer of the license etc, otherwise you should be able to leave it to whoever is handling the estate. FNB were my dad's executors and they obviously didn't notify the SABC, which is why I can laugh them off until they do their homework. (I'm not holding my breath).

They seem to be pretty close to imploding already (and if they do, good riddance) - actually I think a "Three Cents Short" campaign might be enough to finish them and their lawyers off...

 

[burisch]

@caroza, no I'm not executor this time around. However my brother is, and he's kinda off his rocker, which means effectively I am an executor. A speeding fine sends my bro into a month-long tenseness spiral -- so you might imagine what an unwarranted TV license bill does to him. Not an executor, but effectively I am.

I again need to encourage you to expose this to the media! You're the best bet we have so far with regards to sorting this bullcrap out.

 

[caroza]

I again need to encourage you to expose this to the media! You're the best bet we have so far with regards to sorting this bullcrap out.

I have no problem putting something together and sending it to eg Carte Blanche. But I think the question is how much of this is actually news? Probably none - there are umpteen other people complaining about exactly the same cr@p on this forum alone, and lots more complaining to Argus Action, posting on Hello Peter etc. And the larger scale scandals, like the SABC's inability to pay independent film makers, have already made the press, and had no effect.

Depends on whether you want a public outcry with no real benefit, or whether you want the SABC to finish collapsing and the govt be forced to intervene and clean house or else hand it over to private enterprise. I prefer the latter...

 

[ACloete]

I am shocked about what I am reading here.
I have not and will not pay for TV-licenses!

 

[Mithrellian]

Claims for TV licence

So how does it work if someone left the country over 8 years ago, cancelled the licence then and never heard another thing until today when her daughter got a bill of over R8000 saying the account was never cancelled and it won't be unless the arrears are paid? Those records are long gone. It's insane! She no longer has the records from 8+ years ago and has been living overseas ever since.

 

[johndoe1983]

tricky question... need some advice from you smart buggers

If one lived in a African country, or Europe/America (but outside of South Africa)... If the international market had to find a TV listed on Makro and were keen to pay for the freight services to get it to their country... would they be subject to TV license fees? Or does it get void?