Telkom Threatens ICASA with Legal Action

LoneGunman

Expert Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2003
Messages
4,552
Just heard on 702 that Business Day is reporting that Telkom intends/plans to sue ICASA for their report and mention was made on air about ICASA's 'appalling lack of technical knowledge' - according to Telkom..

I can't find an online report at this point..

I would suggest that rpm and/or other knowledgeable folks make contact with Business Day pronto, to put the other side of the case - to offset Telkom's threats..
 

BTTB

Executive Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
8,195
I say let them.
It would only draw more attention to themselves.
 

HaltAndCatchFire

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
527
LoneGunman said:
Just heard on 702 that Business Day is reporting that Telkom intends/plans to sue ICASA for their report and mention was made on air about ICASA's 'appalling lack of technical knowledge' - according to Telkom..

I can't find an online report at this point..

I would suggest that rpm and/or other knowledgeable folks make contact with Business Day pronto, to put the other side of the case - to offset Telkom's threats..

I agree!! This must be done quickly before telkom has a change to mount a second attack!!
 

bekdik

Honorary Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
12,860
LoneGunman said:
Business Day is reporting that Telkom intends/plans to sue ICASA for their report

I can't find an online report at this point..
QUOTE]
Posted to the web on: 03 August 2005
Telkom in storm over ’exorbitant’ online fees
Lesley Stones

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Information Technology Editor

A REPORT slamming Telkom’s high-speed internet services as overpriced could trigger a legal battle, with Telkom saying it is “shocked” at the technical ignorance displayed by the industry regulator.

Telkom will take legal action against the Independent Communications Authority of SA (Icasa) unless it withdraws a move to prevent Telkom charging a monthly fee for its high-speed asymmetric digital subscriber line (ADSL) internet access.

Telkom is also threatening to scrap plans to invest billions of rand in a high-speed network and to sever its existing ADSL lines unless Icasa lets it charge a monthly rental. That would leave the country largely bereft of high-speed internet access crucial for business and leisure use.

So far Telkom serves almost 100000 users and has orders from an additional 19000 clients, says product development executive Steven White.

The reaction was provoked by Icasa’s findings after hearings into the cost and quality of ADSL services. Telkom’s fees were “exorbitant” compared with other countries, Icasa said. It was also imperative to give its customers more bandwidth, instead of capping users to downloading 3GB of data a month.

But the most crippling blow is a decision that Telkom should charge a one-off fee for installing the high-speed service, and not charge any continuing line rental.

Yesterday White criticised that as “a decision by people who don’t understand how these things work”.

The service is supplied by converting a normal copper phone line to carry high-speed data.

During the public hearings, several presenters argued that Telkom already charged R87 a month for renting the copper line, and had no right to charge an extra monthly fee to cover the conversion cost. Telkom charges an extra R270 to R477 a month, depending on how much bandwidth the line can carry.

“Icasa says it is going to prohibit us charging for ADSL line rentals and that’s obscene,” White said. “Telkom has invested R1bn in capacity and committed many more billions in funding, and there’s no way we can make that investment if Icasa is allowed to make these regulations.

This will have a profound impact on the country and the economy, and Telkom will fight tooth and nail against this because it’s not been well thought out,” he said. “We’d … be forced to pull the plug on the whole service.”

The issue is potentially so damaging to Telkom that its “highest echelon” — probably CEO Sizwe Nxasana — is understood to be contacting Icasa personally.

“Failing that we will have to take it head on,” said White. “We don’t have a problem with Icasa making regulations — what we can’t have is a regulator making rash, wild statements like this.”

The equipment and maintenance needed to supply ADSL was so costly and complex that Telkom could not cover its costs without the monthly fee, he said.

Yesterday Icasa did not respond to a request for comment.

The original complaints about the service were made by MyADSL, an online forum for Telkom customers. Yesterday MyADSL member Roelf Diedericks said he welcomed Icasa’s report as it showed that Telkom had been unable to justify its costs or its bandwidth limitations.

MyADSL has described Icasa’s report as “hard hitting” in finding that the access charges were not justifiable, the bandwidth cap was inadequate, and that Telkom should be obliged to guarantee certain levels of service no matter how many people used the bandwidth simultaneously.

“If these measures are fully implemented we can expect the broadband landscape to change significantly. The two major shifts expected are a big reduction in the price of ADSL, and the general service should improve significantly,” said MyADSL spokesman Rudolph Muller.

“These changes will stimulate broadband uptake in SA which in turn will boost the economy. ADSL access will also be more readily available and not only something that is enjoyed by the privileged few,” he said.

However, Telkom has received unexpected support from some MyADSL users. One posting on the MyADSL website said Icasa’s report had not been written by anyone knowledgeable in network design. If Telkom could not charge for ADSL access, who would pay for the maintenance and upgrades, the user asked. “I would be surprised if they don’t halt their broadband roll-outs if the capex and operating expenses are not recoverable,” he said.

White said the Icasa hearings had been staged almost two years after the original complaints from MyADSL, and during that time the cost of its services had more than halved. Telkom had not expected Icasa to find much fault with the service, he said.
 

stoke

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 7, 2003
Messages
10,532
Teee he he he he he he he he. I'm so surprised.

So - if teklom withdraw the ADSL service, then ICASA will have to move unbundling much higher in the priorities list.

I like the way teklom is focusing on the line-rental thing. They even make their mistake blatently clear:"Telkom charges an extra R270 to R477 a month, depending on how much bandwidth the line can carry." - different costing for the exact same 2 copper cables - what a bunch of idiots !!!

Goforit Teklom - stop the ADSL product - open a huge 100000 users hole - I DARE YOU.
 

dominic

Legal Expert: Telecoms
Joined
Sep 7, 2004
Messages
7,329
rage.

they are bluffing - standard operational procedure.

i think myadsl user ayanda's arguments as posted, while valid and welcome, are (a) way too close to what telkom is saying in this article and (b) not a proper basis for a journalist to base comment on

if it goes to court myadsl can file a "friend of the court" brief so as to be sure to place the full facts in the public domain...
 

Celemasiko

Expert Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
1,291
bekdik said:
However, Telkom has received unexpected support from some MyADSL users. One posting on the MyADSL website said Icasa’s report had not been written by anyone knowledgeable in network design. If Telkom could not charge for ADSL access, who would pay for the maintenance and upgrades, the user asked. “I would be surprised if they don’t halt their broadband roll-outs if the capex and operating expenses are not recoverable,” he said.

That was our Telscum spy and they using that against us. What a shame....
 

bb_matt

Executive Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2004
Messages
5,616
Celemasiko said:
That was our Telscum spy and they using that against us. What a shame....

Yes - that's exactly what I was going to say - definately that user was from Telkom, sent in to try to sow dissention.

This all doesn't bode well for the future of broadband, because now Telkom, like the proverbial 800lb gorilla, is manically beating its chest in a show of force.

It's all up to the government to back ICASA strongly, if they don't, well, it's obvious where their priorities lie - not in the upliftment of our country (in terms of job creation through low telecomms costs), but rather, the lining of their own pockets.

They have already shown how adept they are at doing that, with corruption reaching the highest levels, so I dought we'll see any concrete action from them at all.

Telkom have proven that the power of greed is hard to break. They have proven they would rather put their profits above the needs of our economy. Cheats and liars.
 

RVFmal

Expert Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
2,169
Ah the joys. Instead of spending money on making ADSL more accessible to the consumer at more competitive rates they are going to spend thousands on a pointless court case. Typical.

They make it sound like they are the only company that employs anyone with the relevant technical expertise. Bet you ICASA are quaking in their boots given that "its “highest echelon” — probably CEO Sizwe Nxasana — is understood to be contacting Icasa personally". Scary.

"This will have a profound impact on the country and the economy, and Telkom will fight tooth and nail against this because it’s not been well thought out,” he said. “We’d … be forced to pull the plug on the whole service.”"

Isn't their current pricing structure alreadu have a profound and detrimental effect on our economy? Go ahead Telscum, don't just make idle threats. Pull the plug and give all the revenue to companies like iBurst and Sentech (and obviously the SNO if and when they eventually come into being.

I hope that ICASA are not going to be bullied into submission and retract their statements. They should give extenf the middle finger to Telscum and move forward with their recommendations. Problem is that their CEO is probably going to run to his mates in Government and ask for their intervention.
 

MFour

Expert Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2005
Messages
2,902
said White. “We don’t have a problem with Icasa making regulations — what we can’t have is a regulator making rash, wild statements like this.”

Yes right, they don't have a problem with regulations as long as it gives them the right to keep on ripping hard working South Africans off, to the fullest. Please White, how bloody lame.
 

nk1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2005
Messages
319
I have been following this forum as a guest for a while now, however I was compelled to register after reading this article in business day.
How dare they hold the country to ransom just because they have been caught out!
It is also now quite clear as to the motivation behind Ayanda's posting.
 

rebel

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Messages
779
IMHO, Telkom will win the court battle. Why can't the government force Telkom to give up the SAT-3 cable? That would make sense and would definately introduce more competition., but only if VANS are allowed to self-provide.

This is gonna be another lenghty court battle which will mean absolutely nothing unless ICASA act now and go ahead with the regulation.

I told you about Ayanda being a Telkom spy.
 

Crash

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
942
I would love to know how you take the regulator to court. only in South Africa :)
Lets break this down.....

ICASA -> Telkom stop your **** now!

Telkom -> But... But..... Hang on, I'm the monopoly, **** Joo!! HAHHAHAH. Where's my legal dept. I'm gonna whip your ass. How dare you tell me what to do!

ICASA - > ROFL, LMAO..... we are the regulator bitch. Suck it.

Telkom -> Whatever. The govt ownzors us. What you gonna do?
 

rebel

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Messages
779
nk1 said:
I have been following this forum as a guest for a while now, however I was compelled to register after reading this article in business day.
How dare they hold the country to ransom just because they have been caught out!
It is also now quite clear as to the motivation behind Ayanda's posting.

Welcome to MyADSL. Good to see more people joining and supporting our cause. Telkom is indeed holding the country to ransom.
 

MFour

Expert Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2005
Messages
2,902
However, Telkom has received unexpected support from some MyADSL users. One posting on the MyADSL website said Icasa’s report had not been written by anyone knowledgeable in network design. If Telkom could not charge for ADSL access, who would pay for the maintenance and upgrades, the user asked. “I would be surprised if they don’t halt their broadband roll-outs if the capex and operating expenses are not recoverable,” he said.

Goody, does this mean they will start quoting and publishing all comments made by MyADSL users? I wonder. :cool:
 

DVDA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
234
As I said here

Hmmm, this response from Telkom is quite worrying. They are basically saying:

"If you stop us from charging for the ADSL line rental, we will be forced to stop providing ADSL altogether"

Or, when comparing to a spoilt child:
"If you make us go to our room, we won't speak to you ever again!"

Nevertheless, this is a worrying response. AFAIK, ICASA can't *make* Telkom provide ADSL. You might all be thinking that Telkom will never stop providing ADSL since it is too profitable, but what if ICASA, but some miracle, actually puts this into regulation and Telkom does cancel ADSL. Then what? Since Telkom owns the infrastructure, we will be ADSL-less.

The only solution would be for ICASA to then force the unbundling of the local loop, and take away the SAT3 cable from Telkom. These are two powerful motivators for Telkom to play ball. ICASA needs to prove that they can call Telkom's bluff and threaten Telkom in return with these 2 scenarios should they continue to bleat.
 
Top