Telkom VDSL: Pathetic Upload Bandwidth

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Franna

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Here is the max line stats for a client's Telkom 40Mbps VDSL2:
Attainable Net Data Rate: 16.571 Mbps (UP) 54.933 Mbps (DOWN)

But Telkom decides to limit the upload bandwidth to a pathetic 3Mbps. If Telkom increases the upload bandwidth to say 10Mbps on the 40Mbps VDSL package they can easily compete against all the FTTx providers. Otherwise by the time they wake up FTTx will have killed their xDSL service.

VDSL package proposals:
VDSL 10Mbps DOWN and 2.5Mbps UP (DL/UP Ratio = 4:1)
VDSL 20Mbps DOWN and 5Mbps UP (DL/UP Ratio = 4:1)
VDSL 40Mbps DOWN and 10Mbps UP (DL/UP Ratio = 4:1)
VDSL 50Mbps DOWN and 15Mbps UP (DL/UP Ratio = 3.33:1)

The client's data usage for last month was 200GB DOWN and 50GB UP, a ratio of exactly 4:1. The good old days of download heavy HTTP get/response dial-up surfing is long gone. Business and residential customers need more upload bandwidth for things like VOIP, gaming, cloud services, online backup etc.

PS: Hope this thread will receive enough responses to send to Telkom as a petition!
 
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Franna

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Related links on VDSL:
VDSL2 Profile 17a: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpage/How-the-VDSL-Connection-Works/1819
VDSLx Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very-high-bit-rate_digital_subscriber_line
VDSL Performance & Tuning: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?topicid=105744

VDSL 50/15Mbps or 40/10Mbps : Forum members interested
Franna
GCB
S1ght

VDSL 40/10Mbps : Forum members interested
Hummercellc
DrJohnZoidberg
Arthur
Thor187
Mariuspay
zamicro

VDSL 20/5Mbps : Forum members interested
Franna2
Remydp

<Post to add your name to the list>
 
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Franna

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KinsZA said:
Link to where telkom claims to offer VDSL2 ?
Click to expand...

In the line stats of the Zyxel SBG3300-N VDSL router:

============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 3.092 Mbps 41.039 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 3.072 Mbps 40.959 Mbps
Attainable Net Data Rate: 16.571 Mbps 54.570 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 30.1 dB 7.3 dB
Actual Delay: 0 ms 3 ms
Transmit Power: 1.1 dBm 12.7 dBm
Receive Power: 0.0 dBm -7.3 dBm
Actual INP: 0.0 symbols 1.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 3.5 dB 20.0 dB
============================================================================
 
DrJohnZoidberg

DrJohnZoidberg

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Would love to have more upload capacity :(

It's the main reason I have 40Mbit, but 3Mbit upload is still pretty slow.
 
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Franna

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Franna

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Symmetrical FTTx would be the best but the cost is high. Symmetrical DSL, eg SDSL, is not available in South Africa. So the only alternative is VDSL2 with more upstream bandwidth. A DL/UL ratio of 4:1 is much better than the current 13.3:1 of 40/3Mbps VDSL.
 
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Franna

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Wonder if Telkom will ever launch a 50Mbps/15Mbps VDSL2 service. More than willing to join a trial...
 
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HApyM3al

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do a quick test, do couple uploads to what ever, run constant ping... see that? packet loss.

you want more upload? enjoy the packet loss.

upload is nice and all but over DSL services, just weak compare to FTTx. to comment on VDSL2 = this is 90mbps limit I believe and it is pretty easy deployment but as always distance is the issue in most cases.

if you want a good upload, FTTx is the way forward.
 
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grim

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Franna said:
Symmetrical FTTx would be the best but the cost is high. Symmetrical DSL, eg SDSL, is not available in South Africa. So the only alternative is VDSL2 with more upstream bandwidth. A DL/UL ratio of 4:1 is much better than the current 13.3:1 of 40/3Mbps VDSL.
Click to expand...

Telkom does offer SDSL, they call it EtherLink but the speeds are pathetic.

HApyM3al said:
do a quick test, do couple uploads to what ever, run constant ping... see that? packet loss.

you want more upload? enjoy the packet loss.

upload is nice and all but over DSL services, just weak compare to FTTx. to comment on VDSL2 = this is 90mbps limit I believe and it is pretty easy deployment but as always distance is the issue in most cases.

if you want a good upload, FTTx is the way forward.
Click to expand...

wut?

The packet loss is caused by the upload bandwidth being maxed out, the more upload you have the less chance of maxing it out, the less chance of packet loss.

Yes, FTTx is the ideal solution but VDSL2 is a cost effective solution that can provide really good download and upload speeds.
 
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HApyM3al

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@grim

did you do the test?

do a ping to 8.8.8.8 and run a speedtest wait till starts uploading. 10mbps line. so thats 1mbps upload.

this is my result going from download to upload:

64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=26 ttl=45 time=269.491 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=27 ttl=45 time=206.790 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=28 ttl=45 time=194.434 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=29 ttl=45 time=181.639 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=30 ttl=45 time=189.323 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=31 ttl=45 time=178.559 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=32 ttl=45 time=192.255 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=33 ttl=45 time=973.209 ms
Request timeout for icmp_seq 34
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=34 ttl=45 time=1682.735 ms
Request timeout for icmp_seq 36
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=35 ttl=45 time=2017.927 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=36 ttl=45 time=1684.740 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=37 ttl=45 time=1559.566 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=38 ttl=45 time=1412.338 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=39 ttl=45 time=594.888 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=40 ttl=45 time=443.487 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=41 ttl=45 time=612.968 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=42 ttl=45 time=494.905 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=43 ttl=45 time=1140.151 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=44 ttl=45 time=998.999 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=45 ttl=45 time=1279.417 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=46 ttl=45 time=411.995 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=47 ttl=45 time=1258.389 ms

Packet loss. now can you imagine this constantly if you upload to something like dropbox or google drive?

pretty much same thing happens on VDSL. I have spoken to telkom techs and network specialists and they are aware of this. but yes Telkom doesnt really care for uploaders as they want people to host servers etc from there datacentre etc.
 
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grim

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HApyM3al said:
@grim

did you do the test?

do a ping to 8.8.8.8 and run a speedtest wait till starts uploading. 10mbps line. so thats 1mbps upload.

Packet loss. now can you imagine this constantly if you upload to something like dropbox or google drive?

pretty much same thing happens on VDSL. I have spoken to telkom techs and network specialists and they are aware of this. but yes Telkom doesnt really care for uploaders as they want people to host servers etc from there datacentre etc.
Click to expand...

The technology isn't the issue here, what is happening is you're maxing the upload on your line causing packets to queue up, some for so long that they expire before being sent. If you had a faster upload speed it will be less noticeable as you can get more packets out per second

The same thing will happen even on fibre but to a lesser extent as your upload speed (packets/second) will be much higher
 
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HApyM3al

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fact at end of the day still is you are dropping dude.

constantly doing this over DSL is a horrible experience.

reason why I do my uploads late at night when im not using the interwebs. or at office.
 
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shogun

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HApyM3al said:
fact at end of the day still is you are dropping dude.

constantly doing this over DSL is a horrible experience.

reason why I do my uploads late at night when im not using the interwebs. or at office.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but you are just making no sense. As far as I see it, the issue you describe would happen if you had a 10Mbps upload capacity and maxed it out (or a 100Mbps upload). Now give the user 3 times the upload capacity or more, and you won't max it out. In fact, you are alleviating the packet dropping problem by increasing the upload allowed.

With your logic, why don't we just limit upload to 512Kbps and be done with it?
 
Johnatan56

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shogun said:
I'm sorry, but you are just making no sense. As far as I see it, the issue you describe would happen if you had a 10Mbps upload capacity and maxed it out (or a 100Mbps upload). Now give the user 3 times the upload capacity or more, and you won't max it out. In fact, you are alleviating the packet dropping problem by increasing the upload allowed.

With your logic, why don't we just limit upload to 512Kbps and be done with it?
Click to expand...

That's what most South Africans do. Not many have above 4mbps.
 
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PsyCLown

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Johnatan56 said:
That's what most South Africans do. Not many have above 4mbps.
Click to expand...

Well if most have 4Mbit or less then they do not have much of a choice I guess. I don't quite see the point of your post though :S


I would love greater upload speeds on my VDSL line, perhaps then I could stream to Twitch! :D


Basically the packet loss when uploading is caused due to line (upload) over utilization. Increase the upload speed and the chances of reaching over utilization on the upload portion on your line decreases. Simple as that.

It is the same for when you download - when you are downloading at 400KB/s on a 4Mbit line and try play an online game, your ping is going to be friggen horrible! When you have a say 10Mbit line and download at 400KB/s and try play an online game your ping will still be perfectly acceptable!


I doubt Telkom will offer a separate 50Mbit package, perhaps change it to "upto 50Mbit" at best, I doubt it would be beneficial to have 20Mbit, 40Mbit and 50Mbit VDSL packages.

Although even keeping the download speeds the same and increasing the upload speeds would be lovely! However majority of internet users do not care much about the upload speeds - what we currently have is more or less sufficient for most things.
Greater upload speeds would add to Telkoms infrastructure being utilized more, possibly lead to more congestion on some exchanges?

We are still paying for the services, if Telkom were to increase the upload speeds we would then be getting more (upload bandwidth) for the same price and value for money increases on our side although not for Telkom. Why would they want to give us more for free if they do not have to.
 
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