Tesla Home battery details emerge

Compton_effect

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http://gas2.org/2015/04/03/tesla-home-battery-details-emerge/

Sigh. As if Eskom or our councils would allow this.

tesla-home-battery-1024x1010.jpg

Details about the Tesla home battery are beginning to emerge. Is that what Elon Musk was hinting at when he Tweeted a few days ago about a major, non-automotive announcement coming on April 30? We don’t know, of course, but most Musk watchers think that’s what the hoopla is all about.

According to Benzinga, Trip Chowdhry, a stock analyst for Global Equities Research, has sent a note to his investors with some details. He claims 230 California homes currently have a Tesla home battery installation and that there are another 100 in homes in other states.

Want details? OK. Here’s what one of the homeowers who claims to be testing the Tesla battery told Chowdry:

  • The Battery has to be installed 1.5 feet above the ground, and should have an open space of 1 ft on all sides.
  • The battery does not make any noise, does not need any maintenance, and has no drippings.
  • The Battery includes the inverter.
  • The battery is about 3 ft tall and 2.5 ft wide and looks good.
  • The installer offered a choice between a 10 kWh and 15 kWh. He opted for the 10 kWh battery.

Price for the 10 kWh battery is said to be $13,000. At present, the local utility, Pacific Gas & Electric, is offering a 50% rebate. This particular homeowner opted for a payment plan that called for a down payment of $1500 and monthly payments of $15 for 10 years. But here’s the kicker. He charges the battery at night when electricity costs are lowest and sells it back to PG&E during the peak demand times every day. He says he makes $12 – $15 a month doing that, which pretty much covers his monthly payment.

Here’s more interesting tidbits Chowdry says he learned from the Tesla battery customer:

  • The battery can be controlled from an iPhone, and has a web application also.
  • The battery is set to charge from a solar system until fully charged and then send energy back into the grid.
  • Fully off Grid. The battery can be charged by a regular generator also.
  • He has not had any problems with the Battery System…and gets over the air wireless software updates frequently.

That is all very exciting news. But be warned. Not every utility is as generous with its rebates or willing to take back electricity from homeowners as PG&E. Part of that willingness is spurred by mandates from the California government that require them to get 33% of their electrical power from renewable sources by 2020. Not every state is as focused on environmental issues as California is. And many utilities are outright hostile to home solar power in general.

In other words, as we car people are fond of saying: “Your mileage may vary. See retailer for details.”
 

furpile

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So about R150k for 10 kWh batteries. Normal batteries seem to be in the R70k to R80k range for around 5 kWh, going from posts here of people that have done it already. So the cost is about the same. Hopefully this battery will last longer than 5 years, then it will be worth it.
 

Compton_effect

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So about R150k for 10 kWh batteries. Normal batteries seem to be in the R70k to R80k range for around 5 kWh, going from posts here of people that have done it already. So the cost is about the same. Hopefully this battery will last longer than 5 years, then it will be worth it.

This particular homeowner opted for a payment plan that called for a down payment of $1500 and monthly payments of $15 for 10 years.

Its probably safe to assume that the expected lifetime of the system is 10 years before it has to be replaced.
 

furpile

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Its probably safe to assume that the expected lifetime of the system is 10 years before it has to be replaced.

I guess we'll know in 10 days if this is what they are going to reveal. But in that case this is already a clear winner.
 

Compton_effect

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I'd invest in one with such a payment plan.
And then add on some solar panels for extra 'insurance'.

It would also be interesting if the Tesla Charger comes witht it.
 

djiceman

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150k for 10kw batteries and inverter...

Since we dont get rebates for selling electricity, one could build a similar sized system for ~R85k
8x 120ah omni power batteries = ~10kw = R22800
MLT powerstar II 12kw = R60k

Can accept solar, generator and eskom.

Or am I missing something....
 

Compton_effect

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150k for 10kw batteries and inverter...

Since we dont get rebates for selling electricity, one could build a similar sized system for ~R85k
8x 120ah omni power batteries = ~10kw = R22800
MLT powerstar II 12kw = R60k

Can accept solar, generator and eskom.

Or am I missing something....

Probably a service and maintenance plan, as well as R85K lying around to pay for it once-off.
 

Musicmp3

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Knowing how SA businesses work, I would assume we will get ripped off. Add another 50%.
 

hawker

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Tesla could make quite a bit of money if they brought this to SA.
 

etwylite

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150k for 10kw batteries and inverter...

Since we dont get rebates for selling electricity, one could build a similar sized system for ~R85k
8x 120ah omni power batteries = ~10kw = R22800
MLT powerstar II 12kw = R60k

Can accept solar, generator and eskom.

Or am I missing something....

These are lithium ion batteries. Higher cycling, lower discharge etc etc. and smart grid controls, web enabled with OTA updates etc.
 

itareanlnotani

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10KW is probably 10KW usable, so about 16KW actual. (Lithium lasts best in the 20-80% charge range) so multiply by 1.6 to get usable storage vs actual capacity.
Should get >3500 cycles @ 60% usage - or close to 10 years if cycled daily.
Actual lifetime should be in the 10-15 years range, especially if stored in a cool area out of the sun.


Its way better than Lead Acid which needs a figure of about 3.. (Need 10KW of Lead Acid usable? You need 30KW of storage...). Lead Acid also has the issue of explosion, as it emits hydrogen, and needs a vented area. Lithium (Iron Phosphate) is extremely safe in comparison.


Lithium (Iron Phosphate) is reasonable now - 1KWhr of storage is about 1000RMB at the moment pre shipping / taxes for CALB, not including controllers etc.
That makes it about R3 / Watt for storage landed at cost +-. Thats cheaper than Lead Acid here...


My own 20KW setup (20KW+- of storage, so about 13KW+- usable) is going to cost me about R50,000 with controllers (importing and shipping myself). If I could afford more, I would :(

What I really need is:

My inverters are 24v.
Batteries are

3.2V / 180Ah CALB @ RMB400 a pop (the pricing sweet spot at the moment).

Need 8 batteries in series to get to 24v (25.6v)

8 * 3.2 * 180 = 4608Whr
8 in parallel = 8 * 3.2 * 180 * 8 = 36864Whr

+- 22KW usable ( @ 60% usable )

25,600RMB = R51,200. Add shipping and taxes, R70k odd..

(I have chargers here already, just need cabling and battery equalizers which they'll throw in with the batteries..)
 
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spiderz

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From where are you bringing the lithium batteries in?
Mind sharing your source :)
(RMB = China)
 

itareanlnotani

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As I've stated a good number of times now - CALB (China Aviation Lithium Battery)

http://en.calb.cn

Doing the paperwork myself, as I have import / export licences as appropriate in both countries. Also buying from a reseller vs factory direct as I save there also. There are a few other cheaper battery choices, but CALB has a better reputation than Winston (their closest similarly priced competitor), and I can trust the quality. CALB also is easily exportable from China by myself, _as the relevant licencing is already in place_. Licencing for cheaper batteries is doable, but I'd be assuming QC myself, getting relevant export licences myself, and the pricing isn't substantially cheaper to warrant that just yet, and it wouldn't make sense unless I was shipping volume (say a container or two..).

Probably looking at the CALB SE180A or the SE100A due to price points. The CA400 would make more sense but isn't as competitive pricewise as the others.

Shipping involves fun as I need a MSDS report (Material Safety Data Sheet) in order to ship Sea Freight as its deemed hazardous cargo. Its not as onerous as I first thought though, and have worked out the requirements for that already. There are newer requirements for 2015 to be adhered to for shipping Lithium.

Is that enough information for you?
 

itareanlnotani

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I'm back in Shanghai end of the month, and start doing the paperwork for my next shipment then.
I need to finalise a few things first before I can look at bringing more in.

It is on the agenda, but I need to ship one set first to see how the shipping process works, as there will be a few fun things to deal with due to the Class 9 / MSDS requirements.
 

KleinBoontjie

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R50K....R150K....I don't understand, why so expensive. My brother-in-law bought himself 2 Maxim batteries, will post pictures of his setup tomorrow, and two sun pannels on the roof and he powers all his lights in the house and his TV. All and all cost him just over R6000, I think he said he bought most of the equipment from Voltex.
 

Arthur

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Thanks for the information !

How about a group buy ? I know its risky cos you would need some kind of a deposit, but I for one would put down the money.

What you say ?

I'm in on a group buy of the lithium batteries!

How long to land them in SA?
 
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