Tesla Powerwall and Freedom Won home battery comparison

[SauRoNZA]

Why sell the wrong one in SA then? I'm assuming only the non-mppt is available here or are there both?

The article was addressing load shedding. Not Solar.

So there’s nothing “wrong” about it.

 

[SauRoNZA]

It Takes a lot more than just an inverter and battery to get a back up / solar solution going. ... and needs plenty of wall space. Not really a great comparison of two lots of premium equipment.

The article wasn’t focused on solar, but purely load shedding.

As such you need nothing more than the Tesla Powerwall to achieve the goal off getting your house through load shedding.

On the flip side the FreedomWon can’t operate alone and needs the separate inverter.

Adding Solar to it is another conversation entirely and wasn’t the scope of the article.

 

[Neuk_]

What he means is you already have a large inverter in the Powerwall to do DC > AC for the house.

You only need a small inverter and MPPT to add Solar to the Tesla and not a monster that runs the whole house so it can be quite barebones.

Actually not sure you need an inverter at all? It’s surely just going to be DC > DC.

Now you understand why I asked what I asked...

 

[SauRoNZA]

Now you understand why I asked what I asked...

It is an AC coupled device so maybe that does mean it can only take AC as an input.

I know they pretty much always pair the Teslas with SolarEdge for some reason so maybe it relates there somewhere.

In the US you simply get this.

Tesla Solar Inverter | Tesla

Tesla's expertise in power electronics has been combined with robust safety features and a simple installation process to produce an outstanding solar inverter. Learn more about going solar with Tesla.

www.tesla.com

But I’ve never seen it here.

As a complete Tesla package for that market it makes sense because not everyone wants to go solar and in that regard it’s like the Victron super modular approach.

****

And it does output AC it seems which is a bit silly but for the above reasons makes sense from a modular perspective.

At the same time one would think you can simply jack straight into the battery and skip all the double conversion.

The main benefit with the Tesla is the 100% DOD and retained warranty, if only the capacity was more.

I’d they made a 20 kWh I would have considered it more seriously.

 

[Willie Trombone]

What he means is you already have a large inverter in the Powerwall to do DC > AC for the house.

You only need a small inverter and MPPT to add Solar to the Tesla and not a monster that runs the whole house so it can be quite barebones.

Actually not sure you need an inverter at all? It’s surely just going to be DC > DC.

Nah, the powerwall doesn't take DC input.

Combining Systems with Powerwall | Tesla Support South Africa

Adding energy storage to your solar system is the best way to maximize your system’s value – allowing you to use solar power day and night. Powerwall can be integrated with a new or existing solar system.

www.tesla.com

Now you understand why I asked what I asked...

Now you understand why I said what I said

 

[SauRoNZA]

Nah, the powerwall doesn't take DC input.

Combining Systems with Powerwall | Tesla Support South Africa

Adding energy storage to your solar system is the best way to maximize your system’s value – allowing you to use solar power day and night. Powerwall can be integrated with a new or existing solar system.

www.tesla.com

Yeah I saw that now.

It’s really a bit silly.

Presumably the Powerwall+ does since the MPPT is onboard.

 

[Willie Trombone]

The main benefit with the Tesla is the 100% DOD and retained warranty, if only the capacity was more.

I question that 100% DOD.
Is it not just underspecced? So what we're calling 100% of 17kWh is 80% of 20kWh (sorry, I haven't done the math - purely for demonstration).

 

[Willie Trombone]

Yeah I saw that now.

It’s really a bit silly.

Presumably the Powerwall+ does since the MPPT is onboard.

Agree, they could really improve it dramatically. They are going with the 'plug and play' and asthetics approach. High end market. You could just build a cabinet for your solar stuff tho.

 

[Eat my shorts]

*Dutch

And still made in china

 

[Neuk_]

It is an AC coupled device so maybe that does mean it can only take AC as an input.

I know they pretty much always pair the Teslas with SolarEdge for some reason so maybe it relates there somewhere.

In the US you simply get this.

Tesla Solar Inverter | Tesla

Tesla's expertise in power electronics has been combined with robust safety features and a simple installation process to produce an outstanding solar inverter. Learn more about going solar with Tesla.

www.tesla.com

But I’ve never seen it here.

As a complete Tesla package for that market it makes sense because not everyone wants to go solar and in that regard it’s like the Victron super modular approach.

****

And it does output AC it seems which is a bit silly but for the above reasons makes sense from a modular perspective.

At the same time one would think you can simply jack straight into the battery and skip all the double conversion.

The main benefit with the Tesla is the 100% DOD and retained warranty, if only the capacity was more.

I’d they made a 20 kWh I would have considered it more seriously.

Strange, so the Tesla Solar Inverter is both an DC to AC inverter and a DC to DC converter, I wonder why they went at it this way If that is true then it sounds like you won't get away with just an MPPT to add solar on as you say, it is an AC coupled device.

 

[Eat my shorts]

I question that 100% DOD.
Is it not just underspecced? So what we're calling 100% of 17kWh is 80% of 20kWh (sorry, I haven't done the math - purely for demonstration).

What he failed to mention is Tesla warranty, you get longer warranty if you only use to 50%<DOD
Warranty goes shorter the more you run it down,

Nevermind powerwall 2 still needs another device that's 50k to tell it when and what to do

 

[Eat my shorts]

Strange, so the Tesla Solar Inverter is both an DC to AC inverter and a DC to DC converter, I wonder why they went at it this way If that is true then it sounds like you won't get away with just an MPPT to add solar on as you say, it is an AC coupled device.

It's needs another standalone grid tied inverter to charge it as it takes power from mains, it's a gridtied solution when power fails it backs feed from the only one cable installed to power your house.

 

[Willie Trombone]

What he failed to mention is Tesla warranty, you get longer warranty if you only use to 50%<DOD
Warranty goes shorter the more you run it down,

Which says to me that their claim that you can go 100% DOD without affecting the life of the battery significantly is marketing bunk.

 

[SauRoNZA]

I question that 100% DOD.
Is it not just underspecced? So what we're calling 100% of 17kWh is 80% of 20kWh (sorry, I haven't done the math - purely for demonstration).

Yeah it’s a 14kWh battery but it’s got built in reserve to 13.5kWh and you can use up to 100% of that.

 

[Eat my shorts]

...and the Tesla does allow solar via a basic inverter.

Grid tied inverter

 

[SauRoNZA]

What he failed to mention is Tesla warranty, you get longer warranty if you only use to 50%Warranty goes shorter the more you run it down,

Nevermind powerwall 2 still needs another device that's 50k to tell it when and what to do

I haven’t been into that warranty in a while but the whole thing with Tesla was thar you ever had any such prescriptions.

You can use it all the time to it’s full capacity for as many cycles as you want.

Warranty is 10 years end of story no here or there.

Also what 50k device are you on about? The Gateway? There included in that price and doesn’t cost 50k.

****

Yup none of that 50% extended nonsense.

https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/ZVVVQB_Powerwall_2_AC_Warranty_SouthAfrica_Y2RJKJ.pdf?xseo=&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D%22Powerwall-2-AC-Warranty-SouthAfrica.pdf%22

 

[Willie Trombone]

Grid tied inverter

Nah, not from what I can see. It takes AC to charge, so any inverter should work just fine.

Combining Systems with Powerwall | Tesla Support South Africa

Adding energy storage to your solar system is the best way to maximize your system’s value – allowing you to use solar power day and night. Powerwall can be integrated with a new or existing solar system.

www.tesla.com

"Since Powerwall is an AC coupled solution, it is compatible with all inverter types."

 

[SauRoNZA]

Strange, so the Tesla Solar Inverter is both an DC to AC inverter and a DC to DC converter, I wonder why they went at it this way If that is true then it sounds like you won't get away with just an MPPT to add solar on as you say, it is an AC coupled device.

I’m guessing it was purely because the original intent was never solar and it was just added later as an optional for people who wanted to keep things all Tesla and integrate into the app etc.

Then later came the Powerwall+ for the Solar use case all in one.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Nah, not from what I can see. It takes AC to charge, so any inverter should work just fine.

Combining Systems with Powerwall | Tesla Support South Africa

Adding energy storage to your solar system is the best way to maximize your system’s value – allowing you to use solar power day and night. Powerwall can be integrated with a new or existing solar system.

www.tesla.com

"Since Powerwall is an AC coupled solution, it is compatible with all inverter types."

Yeah the Powerwall becomes the “grid” you just run any inverter off it and carry on with your life.

No need to complicate things.

 

[Neuk_]

Nah, the powerwall doesn't take DC input.

Combining Systems with Powerwall | Tesla Support South Africa

Adding energy storage to your solar system is the best way to maximize your system’s value – allowing you to use solar power day and night. Powerwall can be integrated with a new or existing solar system.

www.tesla.com

Now you understand why I said what I said

Yep, that is what I was trying to understand