Teslas Can Be ‘Tricked’ to Run Without Driver

rpm

Admin
Staff member
Joined
Jul 22, 2003
Messages
66,609
It is easy to trick a Tesla to run without driver

Consumer Reports engineers said they “easily tricked” a Tesla Inc. vehicle to drive via its Autopilot feature without anyone in the driver’s seat, just days after a fatal crash in Texas where police said they found no one behind the steering wheel of a Tesla car.

In a test conducted this week, test drivers took several trips on a closed half-mile track in a Tesla Model Y sport utility vehicle, the nonprofit research organization said in a statement Thursday.
 

Tacet

Expert Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
2,662
I really wish people would stop blaming technology for human idiocy. My car assists me with speed control. It's not as bright as the Tesla, so it will merely keep it to the limit I've set. If I drive into the truck in front of me, it would be ridiculous to blame the car for my fault. And if I set the car to drive 180 kph and I can't handle the speed, it was still my fault, not the car's.
 

WollieVerstege

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2016
Messages
736
Funny how when planes crash they almost always wanto blame the pilot, who is much better trained and experienced than the average driver, and not the automation. Yet with cars it is the exact opposite.
 

PhireSide

Honorary Master
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
11,526
I really wish people would stop blaming technology for human idiocy. My car assists me with speed control. It's not as bright as the Tesla, so it will merely keep it to the limit I've set. If I drive into the truck in front of me, it would be ridiculous to blame the car for my fault. And if I set the car to drive 180 kph and I can't handle the speed, it was still my fault, not the car's.
Exactly.

Next thing you know, people will blame Ford because some dipsh*t decided to make an Alabama cruise control by slamming a cinderblock on his F150's accelerator pedal so he could concentrate on drinking his moonshine.
 

Geoff.D

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
23,964
The aircraft and the car situation are two sides of the same coin. It is all about the INCORRECT and WRONG application of automation.
 

system32

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
4,684
Funny how when planes crash they almost always wanto blame the pilot, who is much better trained and experienced than the average driver, and not the automation. Yet with cars it is the exact opposite.
The engineer who conducted the test placed a small weighted chain on the steering wheel to simulate the weight of a driver’s hand.

It is easy to trick a Tesla to run without driver

Consumer Reports engineers said they “easily tricked” a Tesla Inc. vehicle to drive via its Autopilot feature without anyone in the driver’s seat, just days after a fatal crash in Texas where police said they found no one behind the steering wheel of a Tesla car.

In a test conducted this week, test drivers took several trips on a closed half-mile track in a Tesla Model Y sport utility vehicle, the nonprofit research organization said in a statement Thursday.

To the summary please add the most important part of the article:
The vehicle — with Autopilot technology engaged — was able to steer itself along painted lines but at no time displayed a warning that the driver’s seat was empty. The engineer who conducted the test placed a small weighted chain on the steering wheel to simulate the weight of a driver’s hand.
 

WollieVerstege

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2016
Messages
736
To the summary please add the most important part of the article:
Exactly. How are you supposed to code software in the autopilot to cater for that. Further if you deliberately take a weighted string into the car with you to consciously fool the autopilot, that is still on the driver.
 

Johnatan56

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
29,591
Exactly. How are you supposed to code software in the autopilot to cater for that. Further if you deliberately take a weighted string into the car with you to consciously fool the autopilot, that is still on the driver.
Next we'll need cameras set up that will check for a person's face, that will then get tricked by printed photos, so will have to get depth sensors, which will then get tricked by dummies with faces printed on, which will then cause them to require some other form of biometrics etc. to prove it's a valid person, and no one will want to drive anymore after having to pay so much for extra sensor stuff when the original problem was someone going out of their way to purposefully trick their own car system to drive without them behind the wheel.
 

eddief1

Expert Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2008
Messages
1,265
Exactly. How are you supposed to code software in the autopilot to cater for that. Further if you deliberately take a weighted string into the car with you to consciously fool the autopilot, that is still on the driver.

Ye i can fool my car into accelerating by putting a brick on the pedal
 

system32

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
4,684
Exactly. How are you supposed to code software in the autopilot to cater for that. Further if you deliberately take a weighted string into the car with you to consciously fool the autopilot, that is still on the driver.
Also had to put on seatbelt and not open any doors and engage from passenger seat and... and...
 

DA-LION-619

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
13,045
I really wish people would stop blaming technology for human idiocy. My car assists me with speed control. It's not as bright as the Tesla, so it will merely keep it to the limit I've set. If I drive into the truck in front of me, it would be ridiculous to blame the car for my fault. And if I set the car to drive 180 kph and I can't handle the speed, it was still my fault, not the car's.
I wish would people would actually understand the problem, if it’s that easy to fool how reliable is it?

Fail fast and break things isn’t the concept to follow for everything.
 

ToxicBunny

Oi! Leave me out of this...
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
98,717
I wish would people would actually understand the problem, if it’s that easy to fool how reliable is it?

Fail fast and break things isn’t the concept to follow for everything.
How does it being easy to fool in terms of a driver being in the seat or not have any bearing on its reliability as a semi-autonomous driving technology?
 

DA-LION-619

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
13,045
How does it being easy to fool in terms of a driver being in the seat or not have any bearing on its reliability as a semi-autonomous driving technology?
If it can’t detect a human inside the car, how can you expect it to detect a human outside the car?
This isn’t free technology, it has a cost, no one will pay for something that doesn’t work.
 

SauRoNZA

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
40,447
If it can’t detect a human inside the car, how can you expect it to detect a human outside the car?
This isn’t free technology, it has a cost, no one will pay for something that doesn’t work.

Because it’s not remotely the same systems in play for those two objectives?

So the entire analogy is a straw man.
 

DA-LION-619

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
13,045
Because it’s not remotely the same systems in play for those two objectives?

So the entire analogy is a straw man.
You need a driver to enable the autopilot feature, that was part of the hyperbolic marketing.
Naturally if the prerequisite is easy to bypass, how reliable can the autopilot be?
They can’t be mad because someone called them out on it, when they made the claim.

This is an easy hack compared to the quick flashing stop sign billboard.
Also it’s not like Tesla doesn’t have talented engineers or hasn’t done amazing things before.
 

Magnum

Expert Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
4,961
I really wish people would stop blaming technology for human idiocy. My car assists me with speed control. It's not as bright as the Tesla, so it will merely keep it to the limit I've set. If I drive into the truck in front of me, it would be ridiculous to blame the car for my fault. And if I set the car to drive 180 kph and I can't handle the speed, it was still my fault, not the car's.
It would be the Car's fault for letting you in the door in the first place.
 

SauRoNZA

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
40,447
You need a driver to enable the autopilot feature, that was part of the hyperbolic marketing.
Naturally if the prerequisite is easy to bypass, how reliable can the autopilot be?
They can’t be mad because someone called them out on it, when they made the claim.

This is an easy hack compared to the quick flashing stop sign billboard.
Also it’s not like Tesla doesn’t have talented engineers or hasn’t done amazing things before.

The auto pilot itself is just fine once engaged.

And there’s a fine line between usability and complexity.

The thing is working exactly as designed, if people are abusing that it doesn’t mean there is something wrong with the design.

Calling it a hack is a little far fetched.

I mean this is exactly like people wanting to sue Renault I think it was a couple of years ago because the cruise control didn’t work correctly and made them crash. Meanwhile they were idiots and didn’t have any clue what they doing and everything worked exactly as designed if they bothered to read a manual.

What’s next? Making it the cars fault if someone decides to drive drunk?
 

DA-LION-619

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
13,045
The auto pilot itself is just fine once engaged.

And there’s a fine line between usability and complexity.

The thing is working exactly as designed, if people are abusing that it doesn’t mean there is something wrong with the design.

Calling it a hack is a little far fetched.

I mean this is exactly like people wanting to sue Renault I think it was a couple of years ago because the cruise control didn’t work correctly and made them crash. Meanwhile they were idiots and didn’t have any clue what they doing and everything worked exactly as designed if they bothered to read a manual.

What’s next? Making it the cars fault if someone decides to drive drunk?
I’m not saying Tesla should be blamed for the accident, I am saying they should take responsibility that the check for the driver can be easily bypassed.

The feature is still in beta and requires a driver behind the wheel, but if the requirement can be easily bypassed and they don’t fix it then they can’t keeping using the excuse of the driver failed and not autopilot.

Later on when the feature is out of beta, the discussion can move to whose responsible in situations where it’s operating as a taxi with no driver.
 

SauRoNZA

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
40,447
I’m not saying Tesla should be blamed for the accident, I am saying they should take responsibility that the check for the driver can be easily bypassed.

The feature is still in beta and requires a driver behind the wheel, but if the requirement can be easily bypassed and they don’t fix it then they can’t keeping using the excuse of the driver failed and not autopilot.

Later on when the feature is out of beta, the discussion can move to whose responsible in situations where it’s operating as a taxi with no driver.

It requires infinitely more to engage than cruise control on any car other car out there right now.

It takes a single button and nothing else for cruise control to engage in pretty much every car that has the feature out there.

If the driver is an idiot and does that at high speed with no ability to touch the brakes or in most cases the gear lever the car will simply carry on going until it hits something.

On the flip side the Tesla is doing an ongoing check to confirm over and and over again that there is still a driver in the car. If you have gone out of your way to fool that system that doesn’t mean there is something wrong with it.

Unlike existing cruise control in cars you can’t accidentally enable the system and therefore in my view this is a non-issue. And even if you were able to engage it automatically it’s still clever enough to do 99% or driving when it’s on unlike what is basically an fancy throttle input in most cars with cruise control.

This is just American litigation bullshit and a lack of personal common sense responsibility.
 
Top