The Absurd Reason Why America Circumcises Baby Boys

[STS]

Also, it's not a master of demonizing patents who had their kids snipped 30 years ago when there wasn't enough information available to make an informed decision. It's obviously not the worst thing to happen to someone. It's a matter of doing it now that we know that the benefits are negligible to say the least. You are removing a piece of a child without his consent for no good reason.

i fully understand that, and it is why i haven't gone that route myself. Just from my perspective, *I* may be the one that is not informed enough and may be telling others what to do with their own child, when in fact it's none of my business

 

[HapticSimian]

you could quite easily do as nature intended and let infants die at birth too if we're going to be fussy about the things they'll complain about at the age of 18.

i'm not arguing that it doesn't NEED to be done, i understand it doesn't need to be done, but what i'm trying to say is that i'm not that child's PARENT.

despite how strongly we all feel about it, it's not going to become a law any time soon, we aren't going to barge into delivery rooms telling people how to raise their kids and at most, we can only decide how we'll raise our own kids and offer advice to others.

worse case scenario? i had a piece of skin chopped off, i'm fine with it, my penis still works. no biggie. maybe i was molested and had a penis put in my mouth too while the doctor was handling me, i won't know, but i'm still here and alive and happy

The reality is that, after anything more than cursory investigation, there does not seem to be any tangible benefit to the practice from either an ethical or practical perspective. Uniformity amongst parents and peers, religious practice, insignificant (and poorly established) reductions in STI frequency... these should not be sufficient reason to take a blade to a child. Even more so because there is significant evidence contrary to every point raised in favour of infant circumcision.

Yes, parents are given the freedom and expected to act in the interest of their children, but surely a better informed parent can only be better equipped to do so.

 

[porchrat]

i fully understand that, and it is why i haven't gone that route myself. Just from my perspective, *I* may be the one that is not informed enough and may be telling others what to do with their own child, when in fact it's none of my business

You may perhaps be uninformed but the myriad of professional institutions around the globe saying the benefits are negligible, are not.

 

[Aghori]

i'm not pro-circumcision, i'm pro-parents deciding what is best for their kids it's like saying you're pro-abortion rather than pro-choice. i don't approve of circumcision, but i was circumcised and i'm unaffected by it, and my son is uncircumcised and i make sure he cleans his winky regularly

Good on ye old chap! We need more people thinking like this.

 

[Dubes]

Bottom line for me...

I'm circumcised. If I had a son he too would certainly be circumcised. And I know my GF would most certainly insist on the same. She is approaching it from her experiences as a woman. Clearly those experiences have left her with a strong opinion on the matter.

 

[HapticSimian]

Bottom line for me...

I'm circumcised. If I had a son he too would certainly be circumcised. And I know my GF would most certainly insist on the same. She is approaching it from her experiences as a woman. Clearly those experiences have left her with a strong opinion on the matter.

Given your assumed racial and cultural background that isn't at all surprising. I would however contend that it is objectively unfortunate and sad.

 

[Dubes]

Given your assumed racial and cultural background that isn't at all surprising. I would however contend that it is objectively unfortunate and sad.

Feel free to share your assumptions then....

 

[HapticSimian]

Feel free to share your assumptions then....

I'd assume African... Would I be wrong?

 

[noxibox]

I'm circumcised. If I had a son he too would certainly be circumcised. And I know my GF would most certainly insist on the same. She is approaching it from her experiences as a woman. Clearly those experiences have left her with a strong opinion on the matter.

As long as she's not one of those hypocrites who would object to having similar surgery carried out on a daughter.

 

[noxibox]

despite how strongly we all feel about it, it's not going to become a law any time soon

Perhaps not in South Africa, but there are indications it is going to get banned in Europe.

 

[Keeper]

Source to info about a baby dying from contracting herpes from a priest performing circumcision, please.

No Problem.

A two-week old boy died recently at Maimonides Hospital in Brooklyn...
New York Baby Infected With Herpes After Metzitza B'peh Circumcision Rite
Two more babies stricken with herpes in New York City
How 11 New York City Babies Contracted Herpes Through Circumcision

This guy alone has sucked 25,000 baby dicks (so far)

 

[Ockie]

Perhaps not in South Africa, but there are indications it is going to get banned in Europe.

Was banned for a few days in a district of Germany for a few days or so until the ban was overturned by another court.

 

[Ockie]

Baby circumcision ‘grievous bodily harm’ (German Court) - June 2012

Circumcising young boys on religious grounds amounts to grievous bodily harm, a German court ruled on Tuesday in a landmark decision that the Jewish community said trampled on parents' religious rights.

The regional court in Cologne, western Germany, ruled that the “fundamental right of the child to bodily integrity outweighed the fundamental rights of the parents”, a judgment that is expected to set a legal precedent in the country.

“The religious freedom of the parents and their right to educate their child would not be unacceptably compromised, if they were obliged to wait until the child could himself decide to be circumcised,” the court added.

The case was brought against a doctor in Cologne who had circumcised a four-year-old Muslim boy on his parents' wishes.

A few days after the operation, his parents took him to hospital as he was bleeding heavily. Prosecutors then charged the doctor with grievous bodily harm.

The doctor was acquitted by a lower court that judged he had acted within the law as the parents had given their consent.

On appeal, the regional court also acquitted the doctor but for different reasons.

The regional court upheld the original charge of grievous bodily harm but also ruled that the doctor was innocent as there was too much confusion on the legal situation around circumcision.

The court came down firmly against parents' right to have the ritual performed on young children.

“The body of the child is irreparably and permanently changed by a circumcision,” the court said. “This change contravenes the interests of the child to decide later on his religious beliefs.”

The decision caused outrage in Germany's Jewish community.

The head of the Central Committee of Jews, Dieter Graumann, said the ruling was “an unprecedented and dramatic intervention in the right of religious communities to self-determination.”

The judgment was an “outrageous and insensitive act. Circumcision of newborn boys is a fixed part of the Jewish religion and has been practiced worldwide for centuries,” added Graumann.

“This religious right is respected in every country in the world.”

Holm Putzke, a criminal law expert at the University of Passau, told the Financial Times Deutschland that the ruling was “enormously important for doctors because for the first time they have legal certainty.”

“Unlike many politicians, the court has not allowed itself to be scared off by charges of anti-Semitism or religious intolerance,” added Putzke.

The World Health Organisation has estimated that nearly one in three males under 15 is circumcised. In the United States, the operation is often performed for hygiene reasons on infants.

Thousands of young boys are circumcised every year in Germany, especially in the country's large Jewish and Muslim communities.

The court specified that circumcision was not illegal if carried out for medical reasons. - AFP

http://www.iol.co.za/lifestyle/family/baby-toddler/baby-circumcision-grievous-bodily-harm-1.1328745

This ruling was unfortunately overturned I think.

 

[Keeper]

Luckily my father gave me the choice when I was 13.
I'm sure 99% of men would be uncut if we were all given the choice at a reasonable age.


Seriously, if someone suggested to a doctor for the first time, today in 2014, that he wanted part of his son's dick cut off.... his son would have been taken away for abuse and trauma and the father would be locked up in a mental institution. It would be in the news "Father wants to cut off child's foreskin for good, sent to mental institution" and we would see documentaries about the sick person who wanted to mutilate his boy's genitals.

It's only accepted as "normal" because this madness has been going on for 100's of years.

 

[SoulTax]

Luckily my father gave me the choice when I was 13.
I'm sure 99% of men would be uncut if we were all given the choice at a reasonable age.


Seriously, if someone suggested to a doctor for the first time, today in 2014, that he wanted part of his son's dick cut off.... his son would have been taken away for abuse and trauma and the father would be locked up in a mental institution. It would be in the news "Father wants to cut off child's foreskin for good, sent to mental institution" and we would see documentaries about the sick person who wanted to mutilate his boy's genitals.

It's only accepted as "normal" because this madness has been going on for 100's of years.

^This is the truth.

 

[LazyLion]

Is Female Genital Mutilation ever acceptable?
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/11/us/a-fight-as-us-girls-face-genital-cutting-abroad.html

Then why would we think that the male equivalent is acceptable?

 

[Ockie]

Is Female Genital Mutilation ever acceptable?
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/11/us/a-fight-as-us-girls-face-genital-cutting-abroad.html

Then why would we think that the male equivalent is acceptable?

Because religion says so.

 

[STS]

While i am not pro-circumcision, i am disgusted to see the so called "skeptics" resort to weak thinking when it suits their own agenda. men and women differ biologically and thus the reason for various sexes, circumcision was done for hygienic reasons too. this harping on about religion and raising female mutilation when it's not even the topic is about as intelligent as those halaal debates i have to endure

 

[Ockie]

While i am not pro-circumcision, i am disgusted to see the so called "skeptics" resort to weak thinking when it suits their own agenda. men and women differ biologically and thus the reason for various sexes, circumcision was done for hygienic reasons too. this harping on about religion and raising female mutilation when it's not even the topic is about as intelligent as those halaal debates i have to endure

Of course it is part of the topic. It is being used to justify cutting a baby's foreskin off.

 

[SoulTax]

While i am not pro-circumcision, i am disgusted to see the so called "skeptics" resort to weak thinking when it suits their own agenda. men and women differ biologically and thus the reason for various sexes, circumcision was done for hygienic reasons too. this harping on about religion and raising female mutilation when it's not even the topic is about as intelligent as those halaal debates i have to endure

Seems to me that the lack of intelligence in those halaal debates is rubbing off on your arguments a little

Female Mutilation is merely being brought up as a fair comparison. If it is all about hygiene, the female plumbing is far more prone to random infection than the male one is. Especially in this day and age when cleaning the male member is about as simple as washing a cucumber.
However the arguments these days are not about hygiene. People argue for infant circumcision on cultural/religious grounds, and that is simply dumb. Like many other cultural or religious artifacts that should already have been left in the past.