The ANC is in total crisis.

[Vrotappel]

Dang

I hope you guys are this passionate with your wives/chicks

Like a tennis match.

 

[TEXTILE GUY]

Well, I for one did vote NP.

I was young, in my 20s, saw the specter of communism through the media of the day, and of course being active in the military and eventually changed my mind on NP policy due in part to the strange actions of PW Botha, and due in part to the alternate view from Pik Botha. Pik Botha was a soft spoken guy, who I believe had a vision different to PW.

Equally, after my army days, I encountered many students who were part of the End Conscription Campaign. The change was coming to SA. There was no stopping it. SA was losing its war in Namibia, and international sanctions were biting us hard. I remember a discussion where Mangosuthu Buthelezi said, something to the effect of, SA needs an adjustment, and we were the generation that had to make it.

In the same way, I feel a lot of folks voted ANC to effect the changes they had hoped for.
The Mandela moment came and after him was Thabo Mbeki. I met both him and Moletsi Mbeki.
Thabo was a ANC cadre always, but a guy who you could reason with. Moletsi a much smarter and rational guy. I have all the time in the world for Moletsi.

At that point, I really did believe the ANC was going to be the future. I was becoming an ANC supporter I suppose, but not a cadre.
SA was - as the payoff line was back then - "alive with possibility." It really was headed off to a good start.
Even then, there was a factional element with in the ANC. The intellectuals vs the revolutionaries.
The split off and defections from the ANC evidence the infighting between these groups.

Unfortunately, the ANC did the deed on Mbeki - and were less energetic, eager or willing to do the same with JZ. The revolutionaries or what we term the RET faction had won.
This was the PW Botha moment all over again, but within the ANC. History, it seems, is doomed to repeat itself over and over again.

As difficult as it may be for some white folk to understand the implications of apartheid on other races, is as difficult as it may be for some black folk to understand AA, BBBEE and the consistent narrative of black poverty vs white entitlement. The Coloured people in the Cape sit in this divide. As one placard said, "Too black for the NP, too white for the ANC".
I read about a huge flag that is being done for nation building. I don't need a flag, I need a job. But, for every position I apply in SA, the very first thing that comes up is - is this an EE or non EE position.
Of course, out of SA now, the first thing that comes up is - can you do the job or not?

For me, I am not entirely convinced on either the ANC or DA at this moment. Then again, the majority will decide anyway.
The DA surely do a good job where they have been in power for a protracted time - more so than the ANC.
Having said this, the ANC has some gems. The DA has some rotten apples. Most of the smaller parties are just looking for a voice.
There is a young ANC councilor that I met in Pinetown a few years ago. What a guy. He really saw the issues for what they were and really had a great perspective. He didn't dwell on the history of how we got here. He was all about how we influence the future. I am sure there more people like this around. Then again, there are probably a few more Malemas around too.

There has to come a time, where the ANC stop being a revolutionary organization and morph into a governing group. Having a militaristic wing, militaristic women's, men's, kids and whatever other leagues doesn't help.
Making promises about creating jobs and giving out free stuff doesn't instill confidence - but then they are a popularity party - they enjoy the popular vote. By their own admission, corrupt cadres - and indeed cadre deployment doesn't help. It didn't help the NP either.
The factional fighting, land redistribution and its insistence on holding onto SOEs doesn't help.

At some point, the ANC needs to do a Pik Botha. They need to look extrinsically at the world, and ask the question, how do we become part of the global village. Put SA first. And here is where the problem lies. The NP didn't put SA first, and nor are the ANC.
We have really only replaced our white Nationalist government with a black one.

Sometimes, one has to make the right choices, even if it deviates from the popular choice.

 

[ShaunSA]

Moses Mabhida?

Yeah

 

[ForceFate]

Yeah

It's had a fair bit of use. Or am I mistaken?

 

[PrimeSteak]

Well, I for one did vote NP.

I was young, in my 20s, saw the specter of communism through the media of the day, and of course being active in the military and eventually changed my mind on NP policy due in part to the strange actions of PW Botha, and due in part to the alternate view from Pik Botha. Pik Botha was a soft spoken guy, who I believe had a vision different to PW.

Equally, after my army days, I encountered many students who were part of the End Conscription Campaign. The change was coming to SA. There was no stopping it. SA was losing its war in Namibia, and international sanctions were biting us hard. I remember a discussion where Mangosuthu Buthelezi said, something to the effect of, SA needs an adjustment, and we were the generation that had to make it.

In the same way, I feel a lot of folks voted ANC to effect the changes they had hoped for.
The Mandela moment came and after him was Thabo Mbeki. I met both him and Moletsi Mbeki.
Thabo was a ANC cadre always, but a guy who you could reason with. Moletsi a much smarter and rational guy. I have all the time in the world for Moletsi.

At that point, I really did believe the ANC was going to be the future. I was becoming an ANC supporter I suppose, but not a cadre.
SA was - as the payoff line was back then - "alive with possibility." It really was headed off to a good start.
Even then, there was a factional element with in the ANC. The intellectuals vs the revolutionaries.
The split off and defections from the ANC evidence the infighting between these groups.

Unfortunately, the ANC did the deed on Mbeki - and were less energetic, eager or willing to do the same with JZ. The revolutionaries or what we term the RET faction had won.
This was the PW Botha moment all over again, but within the ANC. History, it seems, is doomed to repeat itself over and over again.

As difficult as it may be for some white folk to understand the implications of apartheid on other races, is as difficult as it may be for some black folk to understand AA, BBBEE and the consistent narrative of black poverty vs white entitlement. The Coloured people in the Cape sit in this divide. As one placard said, "Too black for the NP, too white for the ANC".
I read about a huge flag that is being done for nation building. I don't need a flag, I need a job. But, for every position I apply in SA, the very first thing that comes up is - is this an EE or non EE position.
Of course, out of SA now, the first thing that comes up is - can you do the job or not?

For me, I am not entirely convinced on either the ANC or DA at this moment. Then again, the majority will decide anyway.
The DA surely do a good job where they have been in power for a protracted time - more so than the ANC.
Having said this, the ANC has some gems. The DA has some rotten apples. Most of the smaller parties are just looking for a voice.
There is a young ANC councilor that I met in Pinetown a few years ago. What a guy. He really saw the issues for what they were and really had a great perspective. He didn't dwell on the history of how we got here. He was all about how we influence the future. I am sure there more people like this around. Then again, there are probably a few more Malemas around too.

There has to come a time, where the ANC stop being a revolutionary organization and morph into a governing group. Having a militaristic wing, militaristic women's, men's, kids and whatever other leagues doesn't help.
Making promises about creating jobs and giving out free stuff doesn't instill confidence - but then they are a popularity party - they enjoy the popular vote. By their own admission, corrupt cadres - and indeed cadre deployment doesn't help. It didn't help the NP either.
The factional fighting, land redistribution and its insistence on holding onto SOEs doesn't help.

At some point, the ANC needs to do a Pik Botha. They need to look extrinsically at the world, and ask the question, how do we become part of the global village. Put SA first. And here is where the problem lies. The NP didn't put SA first, and nor are the ANC.
We have really only replaced our white Nationalist government with a black one.

Sometimes, one has to make the right choices, even if it deviates from the popular choice.

Thanks for sharing bruv.

 

[ShaunSA]

It's had a fair bit of use. Or am I mistaken?

Yeah it was quite cool. Had that sky walk and stuff. Maybe it's picked up again post covid

 

[Howdy]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524352717229015040

 

[azbob]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524352717229015040

Someone needs to bid for a tender to clean up.

 

[PrimeSteak]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524352717229015040

Wasn't East London the only metro the ANC won by 60% of the vote? Speaks volumes...

 

[PrimeSteak]

Someone needs to bid for a tender to clean up.

The tenderpreneurs rn:

 

[HunterNW]

We know. Too leftist for your liking.

Isn't it nice how we get to know each other ?

 

[Oldfut]

Well, I for one did vote NP.

Brave admission; Julius seizure could label you an "apartheid sympathiser" and send you for a re-education camp or some other punishment, Lord Nelson having been too kind to your kind, according to him (her?).

Slightly more seriously and from recollection old SA politics were interesting in that it was constituency based and it was quite a time before the NP actually got the majority number of overall votes. The governed as the platteland constituencies they won had about half the number of voters that the urban ones had. Gerrymandering and swart gevaar.

The poor old PP regularly lost their deposits, getting less than 5% of the vote (disclaimer; my parents campaigned for them and the Liberal Party (Alan Paton, Peter Brown etc) before they were banned and members put under house arrest). My recollection is that Robert Sobukwe was more prominent than Nelson Mandela. Oh well.

 

[R13...]

So, Trevor Manuel is no longer a paid up member of the ANC. He says he let his membership lapse some years ago.

 

[Thugscub]

So, Trevor Manuel is no longer a paid up member of the ANC. He says he let his membership lapse some years ago.

Trevor lined his pockets properly like the rest of the thieves. So he has no worries.

 

[surface]

Ethekwini made a valiant attempt. But even that's looking abandoned lately

An ex-boss renovated his entire home. Sadly he didn't attract a single guest

What surprised in the recent airbnb experience for durban is that there were always tons of places available during easter weekend but prices were rather exorbitant. Some 2 bed "villas" were going in for 3-5K per night and I used to check often and there were no takers for those places.

Maybe if some are not greedy pigs and drop prices then they will get some clients. It happens in rental space all the time. At times, dropping rent just by 500 rands (in comparative housing) gets huge response.

 

[surface]

So far, we've only seen people say that they voted for Suzmann during Apartheid who actually had a very small following. The point is that nobody admits to supporting conservative parties be it the NP, KP etc.

Not many can afford internet while roaming the streets. Majority lost everything in 1994, remember?

 

[ForceFate]

Isn't it nice how we get to know each other ?

You've unambiguously shared the sentiment once or twice before. You even called FW a boesh, possibly for "selling out". KP to the core.

 

[PrimeSteak]

Pieter du Toit | Suffering from ANC nostalgia? These 5 turning points will quickly sober you up | News24

Pieter du Toit reflects on five times that the ANC showed that it defended itself against extensive corruption, in light of a resurgence of ANC nostalgia. He argues that the party will never be able to reinvent itself as an efficient, modern political party.

www.news24.com

It's becoming one of the debates of our time: Will the ANC be able to stop its slide towards criminality and corruption and reinvent itself as an efficient, modern political party?

No, it won't.

Why?

Because the actual evidence that the ANC and its leaders do not possess the conviction, determination or leadership to do so is overwhelming. The answer could quite succinctly be "Zondo", or more elaborately, "read Zondo". Nevertheless, the ANC has, over a period of 20 years, almost without fail, sought to defend instances of extensive corruption.

Recall these five pearlers?

• The arms deal

Was this the ANC's original sin? Many people believe so. After democracy, the militarists in the ANC pushed hard for an overhaul of the new SA National Defence Force, arguing that the country's military hardware was too old and outdated to serve South Africa's regional interests. After an international beauty contest in which European arms manufacturers wooed the new political elite, contracts worth billions of dollars were placed for new men o' war, fighter jets and helicopters. But it soon went sour, as allegations of large-scale bribery and corruption surfaced. And when Parliament's oversight committees became involved, ANC heavyweights intervened, quashing any attempt to probe the money flows and private arrangements that had its origins in arms dealers' salons in Berlin, Rome and London.

It would become a pattern, but very little accountability was given, with many an ANC fixer today still enjoying the fruits of European largesse. Parliament was sidelined, whitewashed reports were issued, a low-level party MP was sent to jail, and that was it.

• Chancellor House

It is quite remarkable that the ANC's investment arm, Chancellor House (named after the building in which the law firm of Oliver Tambo and Nelson Mandela had their offices), was an early investor in a company which was to receive billions of rand in tenders from Eskom – but that's exactly what happened. When the government agreed to a multibillion-rand build programme to supplement the country's ageing fleet of power stations, international supplier Hitachi looked for a local empowerment partner – and found Chancellor House.

Before the ANC's contentious Polokwane conference, it became a wedge issue, with the Zuma grouping saying they will clean up if any corruption is involved. After Polokwane, though, those promises disappeared, with the party batting away any and all attempts to query a quite obviously irregular relationship. And Chancellor House became a partner in Hitachi Power Africa, scoring millions of rand as Medupi and Kusile mega power stations started taking shape. (They're still not complete.)

Nkandla

By the time the excesses at former president Jacob Zuma's rural homestead were exposed, the ANC seemed not to care about revelations linking it to corruption and theft. Its leaders launched feverish attacks on former Public Protector Thuli Madonsela, after her investigation into the luxurious additions to the Zuma estate on the public dime, attacking her personally and accusing her of being "a spy". And although the Minister of Police's laughable roadshow justifying the alterations grabbed the headlines, the way in which the party blocked parliamentary inquiries was crude. Committees were packed with Zuma loyalists, and the speaker protected the president from almost all questions. It was left to the court to force Zuma to pay back the money.

Waterkloof

Is there a more bombastic example of how the ANC knelt before the Guptas than the infamous landing of a party plane full of wedding revellers at the country's primary Air Force Base? The galling sight of the Jet Airways Airbus on the tarmac in Pretoria is one of the defining images of state capture, alongside vehicles from the Metro Police, escorting disembarked guests to Sun City, a gaudy venue for a wedding if ever there was one. Gwede Mantashe, one of Zuma's prime enablers, issued an "angry" statement by the ANC, demanding answers, all for show. The ANC looked the other way as Zuma's relationship with the Guptas strengthened, and their voracious appetite to claim more of this country's sovereignty picked up steam.


Mcebisi Jonas

In 2016, Jonas, then Deputy Minister of Finance, went public in revealing that he was offered an obscene bribe to accept a promotion to Minister of Finance. This, he believed, was so that he could assist in furthering the Guptas' business interests.

What did the ANC do upon hearing the claims by someone of his standing? It angrily rejected it, attacking the media for creating a narrative "where the ANC and its leaders are beholden to the Guptas" (I can't remember if it was Zizi Kodwa or Jessie Duarte who said it. It was one of them), and refusing to investigate what was really afoot. And while the ANC were incredulously rejecting claims of capture, Zuma and the Guptas were eagerly beavering away at our national accounts. And corruption was left to flourish at every level of government and party.

 

[ShaunSA]

What surprised in the recent airbnb experience for durban is that there were always tons of places available during easter weekend but prices were rather exorbitant. Some 2 bed "villas" were going in for 3-5K per night and I used to check often and there were no takers for those places.

Maybe if some are not greedy pigs and drop prices then they will get some clients. It happens in rental space all the time. At times, dropping rent just by 500 rands (in comparative housing) gets huge response.

Yeah you look at some of these places and wonder wtf are they thinking

Plenty of even better places for cheaper

 

[HunterNW]

So far, we've only seen people say that they voted for Suzmann during Apartheid who actually had a very small following. The point is that nobody admits to supporting conservative parties be it the NP, KP etc.

Nobody ??? Make it one then. I'll admit. #Allvotesmatter