The ant story - elections 2009

xrapidx

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It will take more than 1 generation mate. But then again it's completely pointless pointing out to you lot that the travesties committed by the Apartheid regime will take time to fix. And little ant and grasshopper stories spread as jokes by idiots is not doing that process any favours.

By the way, which of my corrections are factually incorrect?

Oh - so now you're calling us idiots? Actually - you're the idiot who believes anything and everything can be blamed on apartheid - just like the government who is still blaming apartheid for the current condition of the country.

I didn't benefit from apartheid - I wasn't even in the country - I was in a neighboring BLACK run country, doing just fine... until I can here to a racist run black ANC country.
 

2CentsWorth

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Oh - so now you're calling us idiots? Actually - you're the idiot who believes anything and everything can be blamed on apartheid - just like the government who is still blaming apartheid for the current condition of the country.

I didn't benefit from apartheid - I wasn't even in the country - I was in a neighboring BLACK run country, doing just fine... until I can here to a racist run black ANC country.

Whatever dude. Your ignorance is amusing.
 

2CentsWorth

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Right up there with your stupidity I guess...
Yeah. I'm stupid because I don't conform to your severely racist bull**** outlook on life? I'm stupid because I don't clap my hands when you bend the facts to suit your agenda? You think you didn't benefit anything because of Apertheid and I'm the stupid one? Whatever makes you sleep @ night.
 

xrapidx

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Yeah. I'm stupid because I don't conform to your severely racist bull**** outlook on life? I'm stupid because I don't clap my hands when you bend the facts to suit your agenda? You think you didn't benefit anything because of Apertheid and I'm the stupid one? Whatever makes you sleep @ night.

Explain how someone not being from this country during apartheid benefited? Let me guess - ALL whites benefited from apartheid, even whites in Australia who have never set foot in SA.

I bet you're also one of those who justifies the destruction caused during strikes when things don't go the way of the masses...

Yeh - I must be a racist, because I believe this country is up to ****, and so is its government. I grew up going to a black primary school - all the way until high school, after which it was dual medium... strange I never had a racist problem them - If I am considered a racist now, its because THIS country turned me into one.
 

xrapidx

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LOL ... where is my popcorn!

Pretty sure this sorta thing has happened a few times - its like DSTV with all the reruns.

It seems there will always be two sides - one side who thinks everything can be blamed on apartheid - and another side who thinks those people are idiots.
 

2CentsWorth

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Pretty sure this sorta thing has happened a few times - its like DSTV with all the reruns.

It seems there will always be two sides - one side who thinks everything can be blamed on apartheid - and another side who thinks those people are idiots.

I don't think everything can be blamed on Apartheid, and I don't blame everything on Apartheid either. I am saying that the current margin between the poor and the well off in this country is as a result of Apartheid. But in any case, your assumptions and ignorance is clearly clouding your judgement. Obviously it matters not what anyone says, you will believe whatever you want, despite the many facts to the contrary.
 

xrapidx

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I don't think everything can be blamed on Apartheid, and I don't blame everything on Apartheid either. I am saying that the current margin between the poor and the well off in this country is as a result of Apartheid. But in any case, your assumptions and ignorance is clearly clouding your judgement. Obviously it matters not what anyone says, you will believe whatever you want, despite the many facts to the contrary.

And what facts are these? The fact that the poor are still poor has nothing to do with apartheid - it has to do with the poor management of the country over the past 15 years - I've noticed a small handful of blacks suddenly getting very rich - while the poor remain poor - how is apartheid to blame for this?

If seeing reality is ignorant - then I must be VERY ignorant - as per the tax thread... over 15 years I've seen:
1.) failing educational system
2.) failing health care system
3.) roads deteriorating
4.) water purification facilities failing
5.) electricity demands not being met
6.) corrupt government officials
7.) the leading parties head being charged with rape, etc.
8.) strikes of destruction when things don't go the way the people want them to.

None of these things had anything what-so-ever to do with apartheid... but it still gets blamed on apartheid.
 

2CentsWorth

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I don't know why I even bother...
And what facts are these? The fact that the poor are still poor has nothing to do with apartheid - it has to do with the poor management of the country over the past 15 years - I've noticed a small handful of blacks suddenly getting very rich - while the poor remain poor - how is apartheid to blame for this?
There are giant flaws in the system, you're extremely correct.
If seeing reality is ignorant - then I must be VERY ignorant - as per the tax thread... over 15 years I've seen:
1.) failing educational system
Educating people who live in absolute poverty is an incredibly difficult challenge. The current school infrastructure (much of that built in the Apartheid era) is not coping. The teachers struggle to adapt to teaching kids who can't do their homework and who can't grasp simple concepts because they haven't received any basis for such understanding from their parents. It requires exceptional teaching skills to teach such a child - something most of our teachers are a) not equipped to do and b) not paid enough to do. There are gifted teachers out there, and the black kids that are making it through the system now (all universities are enjoying record enrollments right now in fact) can thank these teachers. So, while the bulk of the problems in the education system are caused by the current administration, there are definite reminiscent apartheid causes to at least some of these problems.
2.) failing health care system
Based on what do you say this? Our public health care system is actually coping despite being horribly understaffed. Incidentally, my mother was treated in a public hospital for cancer because none of the private facilities in South Africa had the infrastructure to deal with it. The professor who treated my mom was a resident teaching doctor at Johannesburg General Hospital.
3.) roads deteriorating
There is a massive upgrade system under way on all major road systems in the country. All roads deteriorate, that's what happens when the bulk of your population travels by road....
4.) water purification facilities failing
Based on what? A sensationalist Carte Blanche piece? Did you pay attention to the part where they stipulated and stressed over and over that the water purification for all the major cities is world class? By the way, next time you visit a major European country, see how often you drink tap water.... Fact is, under Apartheid the majority population of this country had to walk miles to fetch water. The current administration has brought water to most of these people.
5.) electricity demands not being met
We've not had any rolling blackouts since January last year, so it does appear that demands are currently being met. That said, there is a shortfall on capacity, and the government is aware of that. Just remember, under the Apartheid regime, electricity was not provided to the majority of the population. That again has changed where the majority of the population now has access to electricity.
6.) corrupt government officials
How does this substantiate your argument? Every single government in the world has corruption.
7.) the leading parties head being charged with rape, etc.
He was found "Not Guilty".... Besides, this country supports the premise of "Innocent till proven guilty".
8.) strikes of destruction when things don't go the way the people want them to.
Strikes can turn violent. It happens. It certainly is not unique to South Africa or even Africa for that matter....
None of these things had anything what-so-ever to do with apartheid... but it still gets blamed on apartheid.
Rubbish. Everything you listed here is not blamed on apartheid and certainly is not unique to South Africa. But to deny that some of the things happening today is partly due to policies that were upheld due to Apartheid is just plain ignorance.

The Apartheid government was a terrible travesty against human kind. There is simply no denying that some of the underlying causes of our problems today is directly attributable to the policies instuted during Apartheid.
 

xrapidx

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You've just responded with excuses and denial... exactly like the ANC... well done - you should apply for a government position.
 

stoke

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LOL

1. How much does it cost to build a school in every community?
R5,000,000 per prefab school ?

Class size = 30 pupils.
# of Subjects = 10.
# of levels = 12.
You need a teacher dedicated to 1 subject on 1 level in a perfect world.

So, this school can cater for 30 * 10 * 12 = 3600 students.

(12 levels * 10 subjects on each level + 10 standby teachers = 130 teachers).

Number of teachers = 130 * R8000 = R1,004,000
Staff = 2 * R5,000 = R10,000
Vice Principal = 1 * R20,000 = R20,000
Principal = 1 * R25,000 = R25000
Ground Upkeep = R30000 ?Guess?

Monthly cost for a good school with 3600 people doing grade 1 to matric =
R1,089,000 per month.

Total school going population = 10% of 50 million = 5 million.
3600 students in each school ... 5 million kids to teach= 1388 schools required.

5 million each for 1388 schools = R6,944,000,000 once off.
Each school costs R1,089,000 per month to run, that's 1388 * 1.1 million = 1526,100,000 per month * 12 = R18,321,000,000.

So ... to educate the entire nation will cost about 19 billion a year, and will cost 7 billion to build the schools initially.

South Africa's 2008 revised budget according to : http://www.treasury.gov.za/documents/national budget/2009/review/annex d.pdf

Revenue (Income) revised for 2008 : R 611 Billion rand.

611 / 18 = 2%

So, to educate the entire population will cost less than 3 % of the entire country's income from taxes.

2. Why is it not happening?
 
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xrapidx

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How far do you think this would go with regards to education:
SAA to get R1,6bn injection (Budget 2009)
or this:
Eskom's R60bn loan explained (Budget 2009)
 

alloytoo

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Rubbish. Everything you listed here is not blamed on apartheid and certainly is not unique to South Africa. But to deny that some of the things happening today is partly due to policies that were upheld due to Apartheid is just plain ignorance.

The Apartheid government was a terrible travesty against human kind. There is simply no denying that some of the underlying causes of our problems today is directly attributable to the policies instuted during Apartheid.

There's also no denying that some of the problems we're experiencing today are directly attributable to the ANC's mismanagement.

The ANC inherited a country with a robust economy, the best infrastructure in Africa.

Was that infrastructure benefiting then entire populace? No?

Did we, the South African Tax payer, anticipate an extension of existing services to the previously disinfranchised?

Yes? We even paid extra taxes to facilititate it.

What we didn't anticipate was the ANC's complete an utter inability to manage South Africa.

Education is worse than before 94, as is health care.

Our Rail and electicity infrastructure has been nelected, both from a maintenance perspective and a expansion perspective.

The real reason Eskom cancelled the loading shedding isn't that they suddenly found additional capacity, it's because load shedding was destroying undermaintained infrastructure.

The fact of the matter is that SA in it's current configuration is unsustainable. 4million taxpayers cannot support 26million welfare recipients indefinately.
 
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