The best ADSL service provider in South Africa

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DJ...

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And when you done, summarize it in English please :D

Sorry guys. OK, let me do a somewhat TL;DR:

NPS is bullschit, and cannot answer the question supposedly being answered here. There are major flaws why, from a logical, mathematical, statistical, economic, and just plain common sense perspective, it cannot achieve what it is being tasked with to achieve here, if you know NPS. Furthermore, the sample sizes of each ISP are not sufficiently large enough to make a definitive statement as is being made in the article. It's simply not statistically possible unless you publish your margins of error as well. In order to publish margins of error, you MUST display these on the chart. Because you have no way to know whether these statistical errors exist on the up or downside of the mean, the only statement that you can make is that an ISP scored somewhere between the 2 numbers - it is as likely that they scored the lower number and a competitor scored their higher number. Because that is what you have calculated - you have not calculated anything else.

Think about it like this (simple way to see this just on the stats side, forgetting the lengthy arguments about the logic): if your result variance difference on average is 1% in the top 6, your margin of error CANNOT be more than 1% in your source data, especially when compounded by variable confidence levels. You can think of confidence interval as a kind of statistical margin of error, while confidence levels is (put simply for everyone reading) in this context the number of times that the confidence interval will likely be true. So for 95% confidence level with 99% accuracy (I can say with near certainty that 95 times out 100, the correct value we are trying to calculate will be within a 1% variance of a specific number). These are standard statistical models and algorithms. So if I know my number of customers, and the number of users who responded to a survey, and I want to work out how accurate the results of that survey are as actual actionable data, it's incredibly easy to do, and it works in all directions. If I know someone else's customer-base size to a relatively accurate degree, and I need to be as close to 100% accurate with my calculations, I can simply work out how many people I need to ask that specific set of questions to, in order to obtain an incredibly high level of accuracy across the entire customer base. So if I ask 1 customer of competitor X who has 1000 customers, my data will not worth a thing. If however I ask 943 of their customers the same thing, I can say that with 95% confidence level, and 99% confidence interval, the median data will translate to everyone.

Often there is no need for such accuracy, but in this case the results variance contains as low as 0.4% variance between provider results and the top 6 is separated by about 1% variance on average, in results (which are not single number answers/results AT ALL because statistically you do not have a high enough level of probability of having calculated a narrow confidence-interval-number). So for example in this case with the stupidity of adopting an NSP methodology for underlying data (which doesn't even equal "the best"), I can calculate that MyBB would have required 68214 responses to the survey from a wide and diverse enough type of internet user that replicates an ISP's userbase properly, in order to have come to these results without the margin of error resulting in a fluctuation that could result in any ISP being in the incorrect position. Seeing as we know that MyBB only received 2732 responses, we can work out what that margin of error is per ISP, and identify what the lower and upper margin of error score is for each published result.

The only accurate statement that you can make is that ISP X scored somewhere between the following two numbers the number of responses means that some ISPs have quite a heavier margin of error than others. You cannot make a statement as to what that number may or may not be, as all numbers between upper and lower limits are equally likely, as this is what you have calculated. Calculating a mean from NPS is great, but it doesn't mean that it is accurate. You have to determine the margins of error of that number, and in this case doing so is easy - it unfortunately results in a variance so high that no single ISP is necessarily in the position that they belong, and it is impossible to actually rate any ISP using these numbers.

So let's use Telkom Internet for example:

I can tell you that given the number of responses for TI, and knowing their (nearly exact) market share number, they could have scored as low as 5.38, but they could also have scored as high as 6.359, 95 times out of 100 given the current data. To say they definitively came last is just not accurate. Likewise, to say that Axxess came first is also not accurate, as they could have scored as low as 7.824 or as high as 8.901 - there is simply insufficient data to statistically tighten the range of the two variables and increase the confidence level closer to 99/100 times, which is needed in this case considering how adoption of this stupid single-data-point nonsense NPS has resulted in such a tight spread of results between most ISPs. Once again, the only statement that can be made is that all numbers between the upper and lower limit for every ISP are equally likely to be their actual score.

By publishing median data only, MyBB do not take into account their margin of error. We know they must have market data information as we were excluded from being published in Q1 2015 on this very basis. So they have all of the tools to have accounted for this but they didn't do so, but somehow saw fit to publish standard deviation metrics, which in this case due to the nature of NPS, is all but useless other than to correlate with responses to market share ratio to a small extent...
 
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entrepr

Expert Member
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Oct 24, 2005
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I've used a lot of the services and was not given a token. I would like to comment on all the one's I've used.

Axxess has been outstanding
Afrihost has been good for me, but when I have a complex issue, they can't solve it (the ticketing wheel churns and eventually you give up)
Openweb: never again
Telkom: great service, weird FUP (you end up with no service at the end of each month) and horrific call centre
MWeb: Blamed me for their poor quality access. Changing providers solved the problem instantly
 

AfriGenie

Afrihost
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I've used a lot of the services and was not given a token. I would like to comment on all the one's I've used.

Axxess has been outstanding
Afrihost has been good for me, but when I have a complex issue, they can't solve it (the ticketing wheel churns and eventually you give up)
Openweb: never again
Telkom: great service, weird FUP (you end up with no service at the end of each month) and horrific call centre
MWeb: Blamed me for their poor quality access. Changing providers solved the problem instantly

:(

We've been working extensively with our Support Team to not only improve the response times, but also the quality of the responses.

If any issues come up, and you aren't happy with the reply from Support, you are more than welcome to PM us and we'll get on it ASAP.
 

DJ...

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Wow DJ jou slim ding, stop crying, go use that intellect to improve your ISP.

Not sure where you see me crying. Even if we came tops I'd call it bullschit. Because it is. I wouldn't go to these lengths explaining the rationale behind my objections to this methodology if it wasn't perfectly logical for others to see. We'd love to be top rated in SA and we believe that we are the best, but we certainly wouldn't want to get there by cheating, or as a result of mathematic and logical compound failures. Our ISP improves each day, but this is the 2nd ISP result that we now know has been complete nonsense, and it's a bit of an insult to the industry and DSL users when lies are published as fact, and where certain ISPs are the permanent benefactors. At some point when it's plain as day you have to stand up and take notice. So if you'd like to address the detail of my posts, go ahead, otherwise I'd suggest focusing on your business instead if this is a bit above your pay-grade...
 

DJ...

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A 10-point scale was used to rate the likelihood of a user recommending their service – where 0 is not at all likely, and 10 is extremely likely.

That's an 11-point-scale, you twits. If you are going to lay claim to hosting the top rated ISP awards in South Africa, then between the lot of you, someone should at least be able to count into double-digits.

And if you're going to manipulate survey results, at least pretend to know how your own system works...
 
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DJ...

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Was the concept of NPS and the scoring system it uses explained to the survey participants prior to them undertaking the survey?

I know of only a handful of customers who volunteered to me that they received the survey, and they were not aware of the NPS concept nor the scoring. However it's intended to be hidden from users - they do not know that rating 7 and 8 results in their vote being discarded entirely. It's intended to be quick and answered on instinct. It's a purely subjective, emotional decision. It can absolutely help to a small extent to answer the question of whether you may recommend the company in question to friends and family at that specific moment in time. It absolutely cannot answer anything else, and it certainly does not ask about the full quarter. It's a momentary sentiment analysis tool to be used with other metrics - it says nothing about the quality of an ISP's network, price, and support, and doesn't proclaim to be able to, nor will it do so unless you ask each individual question and get a rating. But even then, the methodology is flawed, and it does not work in the South African telecoms environment for the multitude of reasons I posted earlier.

I honestly believe that other ISPs should support a far better solution than this. This is either a complete lottery or intentionally manipulated. And there is no way to know unless the source data is released together with the research and calculations used, as well as research showing the correlation and causative properties of the methodology for this industry.

Until then, this is utter tripe and ISPs should be ashamed of MyBroadband posting falsehoods about their clients and their business, on top of employing a useless methodology that is outright lying about its abilities.

Would you agree? Am I being too harsh here? Do I expect too much of MyBroadband when it comes to publishing accurate data that they sourced, compiled, calculated, slapped on the names of other companies, and published? I don't believe that I am, and I believe all ISPs are perfectly entitled to be quite irate about intentional lies, or lies as a result of not understanding what they're doing, being posted in their names. Especially some of those sitting at the bottom half of the list who really do not deserve such low spots...
 
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reacher

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Clearly, based on your signature, you are proud of your wins in 2015, regardless of how 'inaccurate' they are! Rather hypocritical that you weren't pushing for a 'fair and frank discussion' when you won! Tastes like sour grapes to me
 

MickeyD

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Clearly, based on your signature, you are proud of your wins in 2015, regardless of how 'inaccurate' they are! Rather hypocritical that you weren't pushing for a 'fair and frank discussion' when you won! Tastes like sour grapes to me

If you actually took the time to read the responses, you'll see that Web Africa would stand to benefit...

PS. going to answer my question?
 

DJ...

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Clearly, based on your signature, you are proud of your wins in 2015, regardless of how 'inaccurate' they are! Rather hypocritical that you weren't pushing for a 'fair and frank discussion' when you won! Tastes like sour grapes to me

Q1, Q2, Q4 - have someone count them for you. It can taste like whatever you want it to. You do not strike me as someone whose opinion has ever made it to the top of anyone's concern list...
 

MickeyD

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Would you agree? Am I being too harsh here? Do I expect too much of MyBroadband when it comes to publishing accurate data that they sourced, compiled, calculated, slapped on the names of other companies, and published? I don't believe that I am, and I believe all ISPs are perfectly entitled to be quite irate about intentional lies, or lies as a result of not understanding what they're doing, being posted in their names. Especially some of those sitting at the bottom half of the list who really do not deserve such low spots...
While I also challenge the use of NPS and the methodology used, I won't go as far as intentional manipulation without seeing any form of evidence to suggest it. I also challenge the sample size per ISP and the selection of the sample group. Further to that there was no option to indicate your displeasure of your previous ISP, unless you selected that ISp upfront and proceeded to abuse them (and the scores).
 

Afrihost-Gian

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Just wanted to say congratulations to all the ISP's - I honestly believe that most of ISP's are doing a truly incredible job. The competition is fierce!

And congratulations to Axxess.

I also just want to publicly state how proud I am of our whole team at Afrihost - I know how hard everyone has worked to turn around the disappointing results we had last year. Well done team!
 

DJ...

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While I also challenge the use of NPS and the methodology used, I won't go as far as intentional manipulation without seeing any form of evidence to suggest it. I also challenge the sample size per ISP and the selection of the sample group. Further to that there was no option to indicate your displeasure of your previous ISP, unless you selected that ISp upfront and proceeded to abuse them (and the scores).

The below is posted entirely in my personal capacity, having been a long-standing member of this forum long before Crystal Web launched, and being one of the highest posting contributors on MyBroadband. Prepare yourself for a bitch; a moan; and a plea.

I cannot fathom how between their research company and themselves being ultimately responsible for the publishing and ownership of the data, they all missed what was blatantly obvious to anyone with some common sense, exco experience, and basic maths abilities. I also struggle to reconcile that it could be incompetence or oversight, as it would imply a fundamental failure to understand the very nature of an ISP. How can MyBroadband unashamedly proclaim to be the bastion of broadband for South Africans while simultaneously not understanding the broadband market? All the while dishing out awards for it? If it's incompetence or oversight, I have to liken it to someone like Al Pacino receiving the Kim Kardashian Super-Good Actorer Award for Goodest Acting in the Field Of Acting, and promptly having Kanye trip you down the stairs on the way out while rapping at you. Yeah, sure, great publicity, but once you're off their self-obsessed-stage, it means nothing.

Where's the will to win it and the feeling of achievement and continued drive that MyBroadband used to invoke in ISPs, if you realise that this so-called pinnacle achievement is not something to be proud of at all, but rather the result of a marathon ching-chong-cha game between Kim Kardashian's newly adopted Inuit kid and Pauly Shore's special needs son? They certainly knew a few months ago that a good ISP required a great network; retention-pricing; and a great team behind the scenes. What changed? It may have been a flawed system that needed some tweaking, but it at least mostly asked the right questions, which when not being answered by server-farms was actually of benefit to both ISPs and end users. We've now had to downgrade to the voting equivalent of who gets the most hungry-hungry-hippo-hammer-blows, which is frankly of zero benefit to consumers and ISPs, and only serves to devalue what some of us were motivated to hopefully one day be proud to say that we legitimately achieved through blood, sweat, and tears. It has been one of the rungs on the metaphysical ladder for us, we felt for the right reasons.

But slowly MyBroadband continues the path of value-attrition and disappointment, firstly by denying Crystal Web the opportunity all other ISPs are afforded: to use MyBroadband for paid marketing purposes (we recently asked Rudolph if we could give away half a dozen free fibre to the home connections over Vumatel, for life. He said no and suggested we look elsewhere as MyBB isn't interested in doing business with us. Not a single reason has ever been provided and we've asked about a dozen times, including offering to meet to discuss and smooth over whatever happens to be the issue.) All mails are mostly ignored if it has anything to do with commercial relationship or advertising and that's his right, absolutely, but it speaks volumes about what this site has become. And now by turning the only remaining vestige of professional broadband-related-respect they held on to, into an insulting, instant-gratification, popularity contest. Combine that with the fact that Rudolph recently, and quite happily, passed on my personal details under false pretenses to lawyers who wanted to sue MyBroadband and laid all blame squarely on my shoulders after telling me differently, and promptly threw me under the bus to be sued for R250k for reposting a news article on MyBroadband.

Eventually these circumstances add up and one starts to view MyBroadband through suspicious lenses, no matter how much one rejects the urge. Where is the commitment to broadband connectivity and its evolution? They can't even be bothered to count to 11 in the news article announcing the prestigious Kanye-tripping award. There are zero investigations going on from the editorial team and quite frankly there's a distinct lack of due diligence going on there of late on any topic that doesn't just happen to be a PR mouthpiece copy-paste. All the while considerable effort is put in to publish stuff like this, on what feels like a daily basis - http://mybroadband.co.za/news/industrynews/162822-are-you-getting-value-for-money-from-your-isp.html where MyBroadband staff are, as representatives of MyBroadband and with their journalistic integrity held low, introducing the marketing of one of the most despised ISPs on this website (for good reason) by stating that SMMEs will rip you off and doing their damndest to publish information to prevent MyBB readers from engaging with small businesses; actively perpetuating a flat-out lie by Openweb and their infrastructure; and bizarrely saying that if you get what you paid for, you are being ripped off. We then have Afrihost finally admitting that their business uncapped is actually a shaped product and has been all of these years - not a peep out of MyBroadband. We have their reps lying to their customers blatantly, and acting like children by Private Message. You have them exposing that they are nothing but PR messengers who copy-and-paste messages back and forth to their support staff while openly lying to customers for months about there being "no capacity issues" and claiming such a degree of separation from networking that for all of those months they simply had no idea.

All of this is sanctioned by MyBroadband as if it is a normal, every-day, respectful service, founded and operating on the principles of activism, as if support of these actions is somehow beneficial to anyone. While one accepts that things change, communities evolve, and it takes on a life of its own, one would expect the founding principles and values to still shine through. There was an absolute storm with Debbie when MyBroadband went from a policy of "we will never sell advertising on Mybroadband" to "we're selling advertising all over the website and forums", and I supported that action, but it's gone from journalism, tech, broadband, entertainment, forums, and some advertising, to a full-blown media-whore with zero personality, whose butt-cracks you can spread apart at will, shove up your advertising-hand, and have them ventriloquist your message literally anywhere and everywhere at the same time if you tip their pimp enough, while blocking the message of others like a digital 20s gangster. Even the news is just mostly churned for the sake of churning. This site is commercial gold, and I fully support its commercialization, but it's quite unrecognisable in some areas for the better, but most for the worse, having auctioned it and what feels like the MyBB ethical handbook off to the highest bidders and lost some of the passion that sparked its mass-support. It began as a place to bitch about Telkom, but it grew up and became so much more due to its forum members whose collective mindsets defined it personality, convictions and ethics. The latter 3 are missing of late.

And while it would be simple to up and leave, I stay to look after customers in the CW thread, pretty much exclusively, with a deep-seated hope that perhaps one day this teen will grow up and realise that the piercings, skin-head, tattoos, lesbian phase, horse phase, French phase, foursome-phase, drugs, and prostitution, are all water under the bridge so long as her head's screwed on right this time. I live in hope...:D
 
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Jan

Who's the Boss?
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This post is being made against my better judgement, but I have had quite enough. It is also in my "personal capacity", except where it is obvious that it can't be.

Before I say my piece, just a quick note for context on my future silence, despite what further accusations might fly around: due to the baseless accusations and unfortunate assumptions made in this thread, I do not wish to engage here further than this single post.

I also don't have the full details on every incident mentioned, so I will only comment as far as my knowledge and experience allow.

Unfortunately history has taught me that no good can come of a public fight, but I also feel that a line has been crossed now.

Take from my response what you will. What I say is only to show that there is another side to the story.

The below is posted entirely in my personal capacity, having been a long-standing member of this forum long before Crystal Web launched...

^ Context...

...firstly by denying Crystal Web the opportunity all other ISPs are afforded: to use MyBroadband for marketing purposes (we recently asked Rudolph if we could give away dozens of free fibre to the home connections over Vumatel, for life. He said no and suggested we look elsewhere as MyBB isn't interested in doing business with us.

A contradiction. You can't claim to be posting personally, and then bring up your professional relationship with MyBroadband.

Furthermore, the above statement is a half-truth at best. Important parts of the context have been omitted.

Combine that with the fact that Rudolph recently, and quite happily, passed on my personal details under false pretenses to lawyers who wanted to sue MyBroadband and laid all blame squarely on my shoulders after telling me differently, and promptly threw me under the bus to be sued for R250k for reposting a news article on MyBroadband.

I do not have the full details of this incident, but after knowing the man for 6 years I can tell you that Rudolph would never do something like that.

There are responses to the rest of the accusations, but I fear it may not be fruitful to respond further. The two above were the ones that got personal, and I felt should be responded to.
 

Soulcode

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Jun 14, 2005
Messages
439
It's all about the money.
What Would Keoma Do?
 
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Sinbad

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Jun 5, 2006
Messages
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Clearly, based on your signature, you are proud of your wins in 2015, regardless of how 'inaccurate' they are! Rather hypocritical that you weren't pushing for a 'fair and frank discussion' when you won! Tastes like sour grapes to me
Those wins weren't calculated with nps s far as I know.

/reports clone
 

reacher

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Messages
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DJ you guys are a great company doing many good things but the best? I don't think so. Your portal is pathetic. Why don't you use some of your great mathematical skills to bill your midnight gigs properly instead of blaming everyone else for your inadequacies
 

MickeyD

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DJ you guys are a great company doing many good things but the best? I don't think so. Your portal is pathetic. Why don't you use some of your great mathematical skills to bill your midnight gigs properly instead of blaming everyone else for your inadequacies
I did not read him saying they were the best? According to the wall of text double post, he says Web Africa are #1.
 

CAPS LOCK

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I wish only one answer, these "only invited users" - In your personal capacity, what was it that informed myBB and what criteria was used for inviting certain members only. Framed negatively - the rationale to intentionally excluded some members from participating was to achieve .......................................and the criteria, that culminated in their non-selection, was as follows: ......................................................?
 

DJ...

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What I say is only to show that there is another side to the story.

There probably is. In fact I'm quite convinced that there is. Only, I've asked a dozen times to meet to discover what it is, because clearly it is discussed behind the scenes there, but nobody has ever bothered to let us (me) know what it is, nor respond to any of the messages asking for clarity. So while it may be perfectly clear to you guys there, I can assure you that whatever this "other side of the story" is, has not been communicated with us. The last you and I spoke about this you mentioned you would talk to Rudolph and get back to me because you weren't aware of any issues. Perhaps you forgot to click send? You can mail it through if you'd like?

The only incident that was brought up was Crystal Web not responding to a media comment request. Which happened to be submitted while I was out of the country with limited access to mail...

A contradiction. You can't claim to be posting personally, and then bring up your professional relationship with MyBroadband.

I absolutely can and as a shareholder external to my directorship/employee relationship with Crystal Web this pertains to me. In a professional capacity we've kept largely silent about this all and attempted pretty much once a month to resolve this with MyBroadband behind the scenes. The only courtesy response we've received was Rudolph informing me recently that we should talk to our existing partners as MyBB was not interested in letting us give away what amounted to some massive prizes. At some point (about a year) you just have to stop banging your head against a brick wall and accept the situation, even if the other party leave you nonethewiser. But that mutual respect provided by maintaining the situation in private and avoiding public disclosure is lost.

Let me illustrate how this played out: Over a year ago I spoke to Cara about advertising on MyBB. Cara sent details and made us an offer for a few freebies and specials. I explained that we were still finalising our marketing budgets and plans would get back to her. In the interim I also had a number of web banners designed which cost us a small fortune as we wanted to go all-out! Let me show you the comms trail from there:

Hi Cara,

As discussed on the phone, we’d like to explore our advertising options on MyBroadband following last year’s discussions where you offered to provide us with the ability to test the waters, and then to sign a paid-for advertising slot.

We’re in the process of increasing our budgets and would like to include MyBB in our advertising for this year.

Please could you advise on all available options.

Regards

Shaun Kaplan
Chief Executive Officer
Crystal Web

One week goes by...

Hi Cara,

We’re following up on this as there has been no response yet. We’d really like to get this rolling so any response would be appreciated.

Shaun

Further 2 weeks and no response, and no returning of calls. During this time we open communications with Rudolph regarding the lack of responses. Bearing in mind I hadn't been on MyBB for ages on account of work taking up too much time...

Hi Cara,

We still haven’t heard back from you regarding the advertising options and if this has anything to do with Paul Hjul’s interactions on MyBroadband please could either you or Rudolph confirm as much so that I can resolve it between the parties. We have sent numerous messages to Rudolph without response and have equally had no response to this request and feel that the lack of communication and information is really not something that can be sustained any longer.

Regards

Shaun Kaplan

Admittedly, one of our directors was losing his patience with MyBB staff, however before his banning I offered to step in and resolve the matter, twice. Both mails ignored...

Hi Rudolph,

There appears to be a comms freeze on us from your side. Please can you send me your cellphone number so we can hopefully have a chat and I can get a better understanding of what the issue may be, and we can look to resolve it together. If you guys don't communicate with us we're left with nothing but assumption, and being excluded from pricing articles compounds the assumptions if they're misdirected? Only you can clarify this with me.

Thanks

Shaun

Ignored...

We then received a very concerning message from one of our clients, which resulted in us having to contact MyBroadband in a further professional capacity:

Good day Rudolph,

I received an interesting mail from one of my customers earlier today. They stated that you personally informed them that:

1) Crystal Web does not operate an IPC network and is therefore excluded from news articles and comments. Please note that this is absolutely 100% incorrect and Crystal Web in fact has no account reseller or per GB agreements in place for wholesale DSL. Crystal Web operates an IPC + local and international breakout network for DSL and is in fact one of only a few ISPs in the country to currently do so exclusively. I also note with concern that some of the ISPs you do quote or go to for comment, do not in fact operate on an IPC model. It is INCREDIBLY concerning for me that a publication like MyBroadband is spreading falsehoods about Crystal Web to its own customers and not imposing its “IPC or nothing” rule on other ISPs too, nor performing proper investigative journalism to determine whether the ISPs claiming to operate an IPC model are in fact doing so. I also find it concerning that an ISP’s commercial arrangements with its upstream providers determine whether the ISP is approached for comment. You should know that some of your quoted ISPs in fact operate blended commercial models and some in fact don’t operate on a capacity IPC model to begin with.
2) That Crystal Web recently did not respond when requested to do so and is therefore excluded from future requests for comment. It’s with concern that this one is noted, as I personally followed up with an email directly to you on return from overseas apologising for no comment on two requests made for comment while I was out of the country.
3) That MyBB includes Crystal Web in “most articles” – this is patently untrue as all recent articles show. An example is Crystal Web’s R1,50/GB special which is not included in any recent pricing articles but would be known had any journalist consulted our website or requested comment from Crystal Web. Another would be Crystal Web’s increased peak data cap sizes for free to home customers, had Crystal Web been approached for comment recently.

While we are under no obligation to disclose our upstream or commercial agreements to any publication in order to “qualify” for comment or inclusion in any industry news, I feel it’s important to clarify to you that Crystal Web does NOT resell any other ISP’s accounts, nor do we operate a bulk per GB model. Crystal Web purchases IPC capacity and various other capacity in order to provision DSL and some fibre products over Telkom infrastructure.

I sincerely hope that in future prior to spreading falsehoods and creating an issue with our customer base (one of which may now suspect that we are in fact lying to them about our network and products) that you instead request comment from Crystal Web. While we understand that as a journalist and/or as the owner of a publication that you are often required to make comment about a company’s position or network, we hope that you can realise the importance in ensuring that all comments made are as accurate as possible. At no point has MyBroadband ever consulted with Crystal Web or interviewed anyone at Crystal Web to fully understand why we as MyBroadband members decided to opt to launch our own ISP, nor the nature of our network and business, and I hope that in future this is done to ensure that you are presenting accurate and on-the-record information of our business and brand. I also sincerely hope that you reconsider your position to exclude Crystal Web from future news and/or industry articles.

Regards

Shaun Kaplan
Chief Executive Officer
Crystal Web

Ignored entirely as if we don't exist...

Waited 3 days for a response and sent a follow-up:

Hi Rudolph,

Just want to follow up on this matter as it’s an important aspect that should be addressed by open dialogue between us.

Regards

Shaun

100% ignored. Never responded to, to this day…
We gave up trying to deal with you guys entirely at that point and gave up trying to get consistency with inclusions in editorial content. We gave up on doing any business with you guys at that point…


cont...next post...
 
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DJ...

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Messages
70,287
Then out of the blue I receive a phone call from Marianne at MyBroadband a few months later (late last year). She phoned me directly on my cell, which is not in my emails and not on the websites, so she must have got it from the office on your side. She requested a meeting to discuss marketing and advertising and we were really excited to put this all behind us. When we were first scheduled to meet I ended up not being in a position to make the meeting as we had an urgent network issue that I needed to attend to, so had to reschedule. We did so, and I arranged for Paul to fly up to JHB so that he could meet with you guys and we could start afresh on a decent footing. So we thought.

On my way to fetch Paul from the airport an hour before the meeting, and I receive an email to say, and I quote:

Hi Shaun,

Thanks so much for your interest in MyBroadband but we would like to pass on the meeting.

I trust this is in order.

Kind regards

Which began this entire process all over again…

Hi Mariaan,

May I ask why?

And whether you are able to reschedule?

Shaun

Hi Shaun,

Unfortunately not but thank you so much for your interest in MyBroadband.

Kind regards

This is rather concerning and odd.
Please could you provide a reason for this. You were the one who contacted us.
Shaun

Ignored…

This meeting was not initiated by Crystal Web. This meeting was requested by Mybroadband at the request of Mybroadband. I'm therefore left perplexed by the "thank you for your interest" comment and further perplexed by the cancellation of the meeting and outright dismissal of any further communication in this respect.
We believe that the ethical and just approach would be to explain this to us, lest we're left with nothing but assumption on the matter.
Please provide some reasoning as to why Mybroadband.co.za has taken the decision not to engage commercially with Crystal Web.
Regards
Shaun Kaplan

Ignored…

Hi Rudolph,

We were scheduled to meet with Mariaane today from MyBroadband but received a short email stating that MyBroadband will not be meeting with Crystal Web at all and that was that.

Could you please shed some light on this as it hasn't been followed up with any rationale nor reasoning at all. No further rescheduling has been set, and the email states that MyBroadband will be passing up meeting with Crystal Web, which appears as if MyBroadband have no intention of meeting with us in any capacity.

I'm completely lost as to why this is. Would appreciate some feedback.

Thanks

Shaun

We just gave up once again and decided to cut all comms for a while to see if perhaps we could pick it up again this year on a new leaf, and different attitude from MyBroadband’s side. Because I do believe in second chances and mending bridges. So I sent this just the other day in an effort to sort things out, thinking that there is absolutely no way that you guys could pass on this. It’s

Hi Shaun

Thanks for the email and the offer.

Maybe better to approach xxxx or xxxx with this one, with who you have a commercial arrangement.

Rudolph
SK
Shaun Kaplan

|
2016-03-29
Hi Rudolph,

We'd like to launch a competition where we give away free fibre broadband over Vumatel for life to between 3 and 5 MyBroadband members (depending on format and uptake). We believe such a competition should drive fibre consumers towards MyBroadband in decent numbers and the value to the winners is substantial

With your cooperation and approval, we'd like to set this up. Would you be interested in doing this? Our alternatives would be our current press partners at xxxx and xxx with whom we advertise, have press offices, and release first content to. Our 1st choice remains MyBroadband and I believe this would be an ideal fit for a MyBroadband community contest and would prefer to partner with MyBroadband on this.

Let me know your thoughts - we would want this to be a formal competition rather than one run on the sidelines by us.

Shaun

This was the equivalent of R500,000 worth of prizes we were prepared to give away to your members. Once again, the door was simply shut in our faces with zero explanation. At that point I realised that this was a hopeless cause trying to mend bridges with you guys. You’re just not interested in doing so, and not prepared to reveal to us why. So, the conspiracy assumptions are all that we have left.

If you’re honest with yourself, reading the above, I am sure even you can agree that we have maintained an incredibly patient, courteous, and private discourse with respect to this specific situation for a very long time now. It is quite clear that if I knew what MyBroadband’s reasoning was, these emails and circumstances would not have arisen. I also believe that as a reasonable person, you can agree that I afforded MyBroadband with ample opportunity and time to clarify this matter. MyBroadband has made the decision not to engage with us other than to submit media comment requests, on the odd occasion. I even had one of my other companies contact MyBroadband about advertising and we were quoted the same day. I tested from Crystal Web again to Cara and we were ignored.

Does this help to contextualise some of our now boiling over frustrations and feelings about MyBroadband and your levels of professionalism and respect, specifically why my opinions thereof have diminished to such an extent? And why addressing this publicly is of no concern to me now…?

Furthermore, the above statement is a half-truth at best. Important parts of the context have been omitted.

Fill me in, Jan. You think I want to discuss this openly in public? But it's really reached a point where we have to ask “why are we obligated to keep quiet about this and out of the public domain?” I feel what has happened in this regard has been one of the most unprofessional and quite disgusting acts on MyBroadband's part. It's pity it must play out in the public domain for a response. I've got roughly a year's worth of frustration pent up here with you guys, not by choice, and certainly not for a lack of trying. Many members of this forum have been copied in on communication or have copies of the communication as well and found it pathetic that you guys didn’t bother to even answer us, but expected us to answer every single media comment query on-the-double or as per the email quoted above, you guys would stop including Crystal Web in editorial content and perhaps stop involving us in media comments. I have been practically begging for an explanation, and playing marathon one-sided guessing games as to the possible reasoning(s). Not once have MyBB responded. The quoted mails above are just a select few. I even sent Rudolph a personal email at the beginning of this year asking we could meet, suggesting a course of action, offering to put anything behind us that may become a latent issue and start afresh. It was also ignored. I offered up prizes to your members worth R500,000. You guys turned us down. During the extended period of editorial shut-out where forum members were getting rather peeved with you guys not including us in any "best pricing" or other comparitive ISP articles, it took a fair amount of pressure from forum members before that was sorted out. Put yourself in our shoes here for a sec - these all add up and I personally did what I could to maintain this all behind the scenes...

A contradiction. You can't claim to be posting personally, and then bring up your professional relationship with MyBroadband.

Nonsense. As a private individual and shareholder in Crystal Web this matter pertains to me too in a very personal way. Either way, whether the issue that remains undisclosed to me, is of a personal nature or business nature, is only something that you guys know. If you'd like to talk amicably behind the scenes to clear this all up I have always been happy to do so. You'll find there has never been a shortage of such offers from my side if you take the time to read my communication with you guys over the last year. It’s frustrating that you believe that this is some sort of personal issue playing out or manifestation of anything other than what I posted about in the previous post.

I do not have the full details of this incident, but after knowing the man for 6 years I can tell you that Rudolph would never do something like that.

If you admittedly do not know the details then you're surely not in the best position to make such a comment, are you? That's confirmation bias manifesting from the outset. How about you grab the court documents and write an article, and afford me the right to reply and submit documentation for your article (unlike you guys recently did with Jacques at AVSupply)? When MyBB becomes the mouthpiece for organisations like Safact, and publishes their press releases without fact-checking, and in the process potentially cause harm, you deserve some backlash. That has always been the case. You're not immune to it or "off-limits" because we've chatted and shared info, stories, and quotes in the past. What happened there was not right...

There are responses to the rest of the accusations,

Then put them forth. Don't simply imply that they exist. Have your say. Privately or publicly, I am more than happy to discuss this either way. We've given up on trying to initiate those private conversations so initiate if you want to. I am happy to take this offline if you’d prefer? As I have always shown, it was always my preferred method and you have a number of PMs to prove it. I only bring things public once attempting the diplomatic route with you guys, and in most engagements…
 
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